Oh yeah, no, I totally agree. I think this bridge/tunnel/whatever is a great opportunity that’s worth investing in -and thinking creatively about instead of just a mobility need.
I just thought his comment sounded like he was saying “he can do whatever he wants and no one can stop him 'cuz he’s RICH!!!” with an undertone of “capitalism is a dictatorship!” I just thought I should push back, if that’s where it came from.
This is what I’m thinking too. Come out up near Chic-fil-a and connect to somewhere Cowfish is. The entrance to the parking garage will need to be worked out, as that dips down and then comes back up underneath cowfish.
Yeah, good point about the parking deck. Maybe a tunnel could connect straight through to the intermediate level of the parking deck, and by stairs or escalator down to the Target at ground level, or up to the street level at North Hills West.
A tunnel 15-20 feet wide with 9-10 foot ceilings, with some decent quality finishes, and regular maintenance, would be perfectly hospitable and pleasant.
A bridge is nice if the goal is to create something that is a destination, a landmark, or amenity in its own right, but a tunnel often (usually??) serves better when the purpose is actual transportation, especially when connecting from something that’s below grade on one side of the street, to something that’s below grade on the other side of the street.
Let form follow function. Doing otherwise never ends well.
While we are all speculating what Taj mahal should be built with other people’s money, I suggest kane work out getting the air rights to build elevated parking over six forks So it frees up his surface lots to build more buildings. Just connect the both sides of six forks with the parking structure.
Everything here just seems like solutions in search of a problem because people are too scared of using crosswalks. No private developer is going to spend oodles of money tunneling through just to make a statement.
Honestly if pedestrian flow was as big a deal as requiring millions of dollars of construction of something like a tunnel or a bridge, The city of Raleigh wouldn’t keep approving North hills projects. I just think this is an overblown problem about people crossing the street that thousands of other busy cities manage to do without some giant bridge or tunnel.
As indicated in the Raleigh-area Mall/RTP thread, Park Avenue gets through this, but Park Avenue has 25 MPH speed limits. I also have no problems normally crossing Six Forks, but I would also feel safer if the speed limits were lower and were enforced.
In a different note:
I think we are about to hit the cap on the pedestrians at this point (at the Six Forks/Dartmouth) until the surrounding area is allowed to have higher density development.
10 minute walk from NH:
Total Units are about 1,091 not including the Walter Tower (376 units) or NHX North tower (287). I’m not sure how much are at the Cardinal currently. The expansion falls just outside the 10 minute walk area.
Note Vine Apartments and Allister Apartments aren’t within a 10 minute walk of this intersection so I don’t count them. Why 10 minute walk? Because it’s about another 5 minutes in either direction to access Main District Center, the shops near the Lassiter, or Midtown Park area. Anyone outside of that I believe would more than likely drive.
Zoning Map:
Compare to Gramercy Glenwood South
You can see how a how much more it is walkable due to the interconnected streets; Better than developing lengthwise.
Zoning Map:
The lowest zoning around Glenwood South is R6.
New York City also prohibits right turns on red, which makes a bigger difference in how threatening crosswalks are than you might think…
RTOR isn’t the biggest issue since that’s not the conflicting movement when the through movement is green. It’s the people turning right with their green light that seems more harmful to me since they think “oh look green light I can just go”
When the through is green, it’d actually be helpful for Right turns to be Red (Plus NTOR for the intersecting road at high ped intersections) so that conflicting movement between right turns and peds is eliminated. The Right turn phase can be made equal to the intersecting road’s left turn protected phase if they have one. Or you could split the ped phase and right turn fase to no longer overlap, which is what I saw at many intersections last time I was in New York They also had some intersections where the right turn has a FYA so you have more idea that you need to yield to peds, which also does some help. IMO though, the easiest is to just have a Peds only phase. Safer for all.
I walk 3-4 miles a day. Right on red is my biggest threat.
You should try running instead. It decreases the amount of time you’re in the roadway. 
This might be the first time I’ve ever heard an argument that RTOR is actually good for pedestrian safety. That certainly doesn’t match with my experiences, and, I’m definitely not convinced.
The danger with RTOR is not the danger of a right hook. It’s that people making a right on red always roll right up to the very edge of the intersection, often treating it as a yield sign, seldom looking out for pedestrians, and never stopping before the crosswalk.
The number of times I have seen a driver obliviously roll right over the crosswalk in a right turn only lane, when there is a large van or truck in the next lane over blocking their view of the crosswalk (so they would have absolutely no idea if a pedestrian was coming or not), and I would have been hit or killed had I not known to stop and peek around the large vehicle to watch for oncoming oblivious right-turners-on-red surely numbers in the hundreds during my lifetime.
When they look left to watch for a gap in traffic, they always see me there, and often cringe and wave a hand in apology.
It has happened so much that I honestly hold no animosity towards drivers at all. They are a product of the system. This is what our traffic laws and enforcement policies encourage them to do. We’re so used to seeing it that we hardly even notice it anymore, but this specific issue makes up a pretty significant percentage of the feeling of danger and unease we feel as pedestrians, and is the biggest reason why I, as a parent, would not feel comfortable letting my 10 year old cross the street on their own unsupervised, even with a crosswalk and pedestrian signal.
Also notice you will note that none of this danger exists at dedicated pedestrian signals. Drivers stop before the crosswalk because there is no reason for them to do otherwise.
This is why right on red needs a rethink.
I don’t think I explained what I was saying well. Definitely wasn’t saying Turning on red wasn’t bad. Just how the light could be set up differently to eliminate all ped / car conflicts. I’ll try to set up a graphic to better explain.
Edit to include breakdown and explanation:
I think this is where I didn’t explain well. I was saying, that’s exactly the situation we need to eliminate by offsetting right turns on to a red phase, not allowing them. I actually get caught in the same situation you’re speaking of almost daily with the right turn poke out.
Here’s an example phasing of what I meant.
Some other countermeasures I’ve seen in New York and Atlanta and some even here are:
All of the above makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing it up!
What I’d really suggest is that right turn on red should go back to how it was prior to the 1970s fuel crisis: allowed in some places if a sign is posted, but prohibited by default.
Expanding right-on-red was a lazy measure put in place in the 70s to “save fuel.” Maybe they should have posted more signs to allow it in more places, but allowing it by default has been a clusterf*** from the perspective of pedestrian safety.
We were just in Athens, OH and they had several intersections like this. I know I’ve seen them in several other cities and I LOVE the idea. I think we have lots of intersections that need this. I know there are some rather influential people that peruse this blog and I hope they take note!
The city of Raleigh thanks you for the free traffic consulting.
I would be SOOOOOO irate! I mean, no amount of money can replace the lack of shadows!
I apologize as this is so totally off-topic. But, when you mentioned shadows, I had a mental flash.
As many of you know, I’m a total railroad structure nerd. And, I’ve been watching with amazement at NY Governor Cuomo’s land grab as the city tries to enhance the capacity and surroundings of New York Penn(sylvania) Station.
There is the plan to add to the current track capacity by expanding to the south of the current station’s 1910 footprint, taking out a complete NYC city/avenue block in the process. This is to be accomplished by an eminent domain exercise, and the project will add something around 20 million square feet of mixed-use space spread around the station in about eight slab high-rises. The air-space development, in theory, would pay for the station improvements. (This is in addition to the 18 million square feet of development already committed for Hudson Yards and the 5.4 million square feet of Manhattan West already going up just immediately west of Farley/Penn Station.)
The Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the Empire Station Complex has recently dropped.
And, included in the document is the best collection of building shadow analysis that I’ve ever seen. Here’s a brief snippet…
A true joy to behold!!
I’ve got a project going on in Penn1 (formerly 1Penn), was up there last week, and there’s a crap-ton of stuff going on around Penn Station and 33rd St. right now. Penn1 is the unfortunate building that’s existing in the middle of all of those “proposed” towers.
Yup. With the LIRR Concourse work going on below 33rd, the re-do off Penn1 and upfit of Penn2, Vornado has already kicked off some pretty big stuff to compete with Oxford/Related and Brookfield’s work to the west.
Then, we see the Hotel Penn go bye-bye to be replaced by PENN15 (please do not giggle).
As will we lose our amazing direct view of the Empire State Building out of our east windows.
I got an idea. How about they start with that awful looking Madison Square Garden. That thing’s a dog outside!
Yup. Empire State Realty has been fighting for their sole visual supremacy of Midtown Manhattan for some time, and it’s been pretty much a losing battle once Hudson Yards started going up.
