And yet I gave my own firsthand account of being threatened with a shiv downtown on this forum … an event that happened probably 6 years ago, and has never happened to me since. My point being; all those accounts are anecdotal, and statistics are not.
The crime rate in Raleigh is, inarguably, super low.
I am just saying these people are dealing with it for 8+ hours on a daily basis. Stats are great but there isnt a stat for number of times human feces were cleaned off a store front by a manager. Numbers cant tell the full story.
Their stories are anecdotal but if they have noticed an uptick in delinquent behavior and are literally in tears begging for help, it’s not the right time for the city to point to a chart and say “no, it’s not that bad”. Next step would be for businesses to walk away and money talks. Then the situation is way past saving.
Businesses who look at their revenue and see it going down is not anecdotal.
I also think that the data is only as accurate as the sampling location. So it could be that crime rates have decreased in some areas but drastically increased in other areas. That would keep the overall crime rate of Raleigh low, but the “hot spots” would be really suffering.
It does seem like that is what is occurring in this area, as well as Glenwood South. Hopefully the city is able to come up with some targeted, workable solutions because I think the last thing anyone wants is for “bad areas” of Raleigh to be created.
But… businesses have seen their revenue go down since the pandemic and it simply hasn’t recovered. They’re just trying to find a scapegoat, and “CRIME” is a super easy one.
My impression was that this was the main driving factor behind locating it on Salisbury, to serve the downtown bars and restaurants, so my suspicion is that this has already been done or would be concurrent with opening. If they’re really that concerned about it maybe the ABC commission can keep it on an appointment basis until the City is satisfied
You’re completely right. People are being hysterical. The murder rate in Raleigh is the lowest of any major city in the state and is pretty good for a major US city.
The homeless population is something every major city is dealing with. Unfortunately we live in a country that does not give AF about its citizens. Cities bear the brunt of the externalities of that, and are powerless to stop macroeconomic policies that the rest of the country votes for that lead to the problem.
Covid might still be some of it, but I frequent that area on foot a lot and have for the past few years. It’s definitely changed some and my gut reaction (very scientific, I know) is that these business owners have some validity to what they are saying.
Sometimes people go all up in arms about stuff (looking at you Livable Raleigh) and it’s easy to tell it’s someone blowing things out of proportion. Listening to what the restaurant owners are saying here, my initial feeling is that it seems plausible based on what I’ve seen in the area.
Again, no facts here, but quite frankly no one else is providing facts that show that the business owners are wrong sooooo 
Where does being threatened get captured in this data?
One of the biz owners from the meeting specifically mentioned that revenue didn’t break downward until this year. Virtually everyone who spoke recounted extremely similar stories with a timeline beginning about six months ago.
Candidly, I was dismissive of the issue until watching those remarks, and who said them. They changed my opinion.
Also, Bittersweet owner said revenues are down the last few months by a significant amount. I took it as businesses had recovered and are now suffering.
I’m seeing a trend here. Karla and I moved in June, perhaps downtown just misses us?
Ok, joking aside, back to the topic.
Correlation doesn’t necessarily equal causation. Interest rates keep going up and people are starting to tighten their pocketbooks, especially as rising costs make going out more expensive.
Young Hearts owner and the Bittersweet owner mentioned that they have seen specific damage to their business as a result of the area. Revenues in this area down by 30% across the board seems to be a common trend. This goes against other data where different sections of downtown Raleigh are not experiencing the same downturn in business.
The Bittersweet owner mentioned that she has been courted by other locations where these issues would not need to be dealt with. The Young Hearts owner mentioned that if there wasn’t specific action taken, they would need to consider closing up shop.
I’ll add that I walk by this location 1-2 times a day and I have noticed in recent months, specifically Summer, there was usually a group of kids moving in a large group between Taz’s and the bus entrance. I actually took some friends out to St Roch a month or so back and we had to walk through that large crowd. They were noticeably uncomfortable as the group all had face masks on and yelling at each other.
We have plenty of space in other parts of the city. A number of parks. This group setting up shop in front of these businesses and staying there is loitering and damages these businesses. The business owners have likely had to deal with the loitering for quite some time and have lost business due to people not feeling safe around there or approaching the business.
It would be a travesty to lose these businesses, as I think this area can be one of the defining gems on this side of Raleigh. Some of the best food this side of Raleigh has to offer. If the leaders of these businesses are all suffering the same damages and pointing to the same problem, we need to listen or it’s only a matter of time before we lose them.
It wouldn’t trust anything Greg Hatem is saying. He is also the guy who tried to get rid of alcohol on sidewalks out front of bars 
I think we’re seeing a bunch of people who thought they were ready to live in a growing vibrant downtown are actually not ready.
Its Livable Raleigh’s sense of frozen ideals shifted forward 20-30 years. Different baseline landscape now but they’re starting to sound the same.
I’m not really sure how the situations described indicate a vibrant city. Could you please expound?
More people, more business, more everything. Good and bad.
I’ll also add that I walked through the area yesterday. A group of 4 police officers and a police car can be observed. I actually passed them about 3 times while going through the area. Another in the bus terminal, and another out in front of DGX.
I’d be willing to bet money that they are absolutely bluffing and will not be going anywhere lmaooo
