I can attest to that. My office is right in the flight path with the western (longer) runway at RDU. We are in a huge office park, and it is maddening to get out of here in the afternoons.
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I said (yet). Bengal Towne Center, currently under construction, will be the first I’m aware of. What other mix use does Fuquay currently have?
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Broad Street Market is the first that comes to mind. N Broad St at N Judd Pkwy NE. Food Lion, shops, restaurants. Senior citizens apartments built a few years ago and a brand new apartment complex.
It’s a strip mall with apartments behind it on an adjacent lot, which doesn’t even connect in any meaningful way.
I think we just have very different definitions of what a mixed use development is. This is what I think of when I say mixed use…
“The Urban Land Institute’s Mixed-Use Development Handbook characterizes mixed-use development as one that 1) provides three or more significant revenue-producing uses (such as retail/entertainment, office, residential, hotel, and/or civic/cultural/recreation), 2) fosters integration, density, and compatibility of land uses, and 3) creates a walkable community with uninterrupted pedestrian connections.”
Well at any rate this really doesn’t have much to do with railroads.
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Fuquay has mixed use in the downtown Varina district where Aviator is. They are currently constructing the Bengal Towne Center and has a 5 story project in the downtown Fuquay district planned along Main street and E Academy street.
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While I was looking for a few government reports to prove a point, I came across some information that might be useful later (PDF download).
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This might not be the right place to put this, but the Acela has new trains coming, and Amtrak is posed to break even, for the first time, in 2021. It seems that more inter-city corridors is in the plans, and the Piedmont route sure sounds to me like an ideal place!
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A few more details on the new Acela trains:
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The trouble with using Norfolk Southern’s ‘NS’ line to Fuquay (see upper left corner of the diagram) is that there’s no easy way for that equipment to access Raleigh Union Station’s current platforms.
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I found an interesting update on the feasibility study for a rail connection between Raleigh and Fayetteville. It’s the first part of the ongoing feasibility study (basically contrasting the “west” route via Fuquay versus the “east” route via Selma)., which is looking at fatal flaws and very rough ridership estimates. It’s only the first of many steps to see if such a passenger rail connection is even worth it… so please take this entire study with a grain of salt.
Fayetteville
This study looked at pros and cons of the east vs west routes for all major segments. Starting with the southern terminus of Fayetteville, it’s been clear from the start that the western route would struggle due to its low speed limit and poor connections -but it turns out that building the eastern route could result in some major headaches as well.
Selma
Selma is only accessed by the eastern route in this study -but the team doing this feasibility study did their due diligence and tried to see what’s good and bad about a route passing through that junction city. You may have noticed this if you looked at satellite maps of this area, but Selma’s not exactly conducive for a Raleigh-Fayetteville rail service, either, without some major changes.
Raleigh
…and the critiques y’all have been waiting for! Do you agree with these ratings?
…but this doesn’t mean Raleigh’s situation is all that simple:
overall
Here’s the rating of both routes, overall, regardless of specific cities.
ridership predictions, v0.1
This is a very very VERY crude, preliminary study on how many people may ride a Raleigh-Fayetteville rail service (for either route).
“Crude”, as in “you should only trust the order of magnitude of these results” crude.
“Crude”, as in “this model has some assumptions we all know are not realistic” crude.
Now, it would be nice if this is when I show you awesome-looking models with sky-high ridership estimates.
But we’re living in a world where Shakira’s brilliant Super Bowl choreography is derided as borderline porn, so that’s not what we got.
The number of potential passengers (not just the fraction versus the whole population) doesn’t look much better, either.
Remember, in the RDU thread, we’re arguing about whether one percent of airport users using transit is realistic.
Looks like we’ll be seeing more of this study throughout this year! Hopefully we’ll see some better news (or helpful suggestions to urbanize eastern NC in a smarter way) as this study keeps going through June 2020.
Full report (Memo: Fatal Flaw Assessment and Preliminary Ridership Forecasts) available here:
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Oy! The spawn of EASTRAN. I’ve made my points earlier on this idea, and Metro Analytics pretty much echoes those. But, I’ll try to be positive.
The West Route has so many flaws that I won’t begin to elaborate with the killer being it’s termination at RGH/RUS.
The East Route through Selma becomes the better choice, but not without some infrastructure upgrades. There would have to be a turnout in the SE quadrant from the A-line to the H-line at Selma Interlocking (MP A161.0/H109.4), which would get mighty close to Bailey Food Mill (one of the bigger rail freight customers). Granted then, that there would have to be push-pull running on the service - half of the length forward and half of the length backward. This would allow the operation to access FAY and RGH/RUS without any fancy maneuvering required with the West Route.
And, there would have to be reactivation of old SOU platform on the south side of SSM/Selma Union Depot/Station - which could be pretty easy to do. (Access to the old SOU platform is on the left of the photo) But, there still would need to be double-tracking of the H-Line at Selma Interlocking preventing freight operations from being fouled while passenger equipment dwells at the station.
Next becomes the maintenance yard operations. NCDOT Capital Yard is already out of contention because of capacity issues. NS Glenwood Yard could be contracted out. It already has servicing buildings which could be reactivated as also storage capacity after expansion of NS Selma Yard. NS Selma Yard’s out of the picture as it doesn’t have the servicing infrastructure in place. It’s more of a storage yard with refueling happening in NS East Durham Yard. And, having an operations center in the middle requires a lot of dead-heading empty train sets in the morning and evening.
One possibility to consider is an operations center on old industrial land at the tail end of the NS in downtown Fayetteville. If the city wants the service, they might want to consider acquiring that land for storage and operations.
This is the same kind of goofiness that happened when the fledgling MTA was left trying to merge the disparate threads of the IRT, BMT, and IND into a unified subway system. It was completed, but not without a lot of work to connect the lines.
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I’ve always wondered why these studies tend to avoid recommending things like new track connections.
The way that passenger trains operate at Selma feels kind of slapdash as well. The curved platform for the Carolinian/Silver Star is just… odd. The way this study proposes complicated, multi-stage turning moves to turn between Raleigh and Fayetteville is kind of case in point.
Thinking about how to fix this, here is my proposal:
Now some armchair engineer stuff:
-All curves as shown are 833ft radius. With no superelevation and the US standard of 3 inches of unbalance, that means 25mph. If you could get that to 900ft and allow 4 inches of unbalance, speeds could be 30mph. Regardless, turnouts would be standard no. 15’s (which are a dime a dozen, and good for 30mph).
-All trains that stop at Selma use the same platform.
-The CSX A-line is raised above the NCRR on a flyover, through trains that don’t stop at Selma would use it.
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That balloon loop would certainly prevent any kind of backing move in either direction.
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The land for this is readily available… so, why not? Well, to answer that rhetorical question:
Firstly it might take up more space than I think, and therefore not be constructable (I am an armchair engineer, remember!), given how close this is to downtown Selma, and how there is less than half a mile between I-95 and the A-line.
Secondly, it would be costly, especially with the flyover (but that’s kind of the whole point…).
Thirdly, there might be operational hassles associated with this that CSX, NS, or NCRR reject outright. They like their railroadin’ old timey and simple.
Fourthly, Selma might not like having this empty land between I-95 and their downtown along East Anderson Street (dubbed in their Land Use Plan as a “corridor of strategic importance”) filled up with railroad infrastructure.
Fifthly, as soon as the land owners get wind that some infrastructure is planned there, they will either start developing their land or otherwise posturing to get maximum compensation.
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Hats off, @orulz. Try as I might, I couldn’t make a north-to-west flying junction happen. That grain mill constrained me on the SE quadrant.
And, the public housing on the SW quadrant was pretty much off-limits for a simple, but very wide turnout.
May I ask the source of this graphic?
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Awkwardly, last years permit requests aren’t a big help for rail planning–rail lines last hundreds of years, so planning for them really requires the use of long-range forecasts. Most long-range planning uses 30 years out, or 2040 data, typically produced by local MPOs, like so: Planning for the Future - NC Capital Area Metropolitan Planning Organization
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I made it in Microsoft 3D Paint. Quick and easy Bézier curves. That, and a screen grab from Google Maps.
The flying junction graphic was from Wikipedia.
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I don’t know why I click on the train talk threads. Google needs a train talk translator. I have no idea how you people acquire this much knowledge.
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