DTR to RDU rail line

[keita]

I’m assuming this is one of those things where some of us have gotten into such lengthy, wonky arguments that everyone else lost track.

So. Let’s settle this once for all, and bring out all the receipts.

@Why we can't seem to shut up and agree about rail transit in the Triangle

There seems to be three major clusters of belief that people on this forum like to gravitate towards. Their sentiments can basically be narrowed down to these sound bites:

1. Build all the things, yesterday!!! Screw politics, land rights, engineering challenges, and everything in between. I want everything perfectly, from dense developments and 10-minute-headway trains to transit-adjacent affordable housing, now!

2. We need more information and proofs of concept; let’s build things slowly, expand our current system, and grow in a realistic way even if it takes decades to do. (I personally belong somewhere between this camp and the previous one)

3. The entire premise of mass transit as an alternative to highways, private vehicles etc. seems like a magnet for mismanagement and/or irredeemable design flaws that won’t solve any problems other than making things cost more.

You can also divide all three groups by transit modality, like:

• Commuter rail (by sharing NCRR/CSX tracks that already exist)
• Commuter rail (build new rail??)
• Light rail
• Bus rapid transit (fancy buses)
• Bus rapid transit (actual BRT, complete with dedicated rights-of-way etc.)
• expanded bus service beyond what we already have (“traffic demand management”)
• autonomous vehicles, or otherwise letting the market figure it out for themselves without citizen intervention
• bikes and scooters?

…as well as by geography (people’s ideas differ depending on whether you’re talking about DTR, NC State’s campus, state fairgrounds, Cary, Morrisville, RTP, RDU, and elsewhere).

TL/DR: “let’s build rail in the Triangle!!” sounds like a cool idea, but it turns out that people have VERY different ideas and assumptions, depending on how you frame the question.

OK. Well, let’s just focus on the whole RDU thing, since that’s what this thread is about.

RDU currently has a bus connection directly to RTP and downtown Raleigh (the GoTriangle 100), and GoTriangle’s been trying to make a cute attempt at promoting this. They’re also planning to add a consolidated rental car facility among other amenities, too.

Obviously, they can be better advertised, and that’s something GoTriangle and CAMPO (the regional transit planning agency) are trying to do. On top of a MASSIVE to-do list to make Raleigh’s bus system more reliable and convenient, thanks to a voter-approved funding spike that started in 2016.

One of the big goals in this plan is to introduce increased service to Chapel Hill/Durham and Raleigh.

via RTP and RDU.

From the regional transit plans’ website (goforwardnc.com):

@The Wake Transit Plan will increase bus service and

• Expand existing frequent bus service from 17 to 83 miles, with service at least every 15 minutes.
• Improve links between colleges and universities, employment centers, medical facilities, dense residential areas, RDU Airport and downtowns.

GoTriangle’s 100 buses already have 30-minute headways every day during the day (yeah they can do better and have even more RDU connections, but it’s still an improvement from 60 min. in years past?), for starters.

Reminder: because we’re not a dictatorship, our public infrastructure has to go through years of hoops to demonstrate that building a thing won’t destroy your wallet or environment in the process (read me). It literally takes decades to go from an idea to having shovels in the ground because we, as a society, believe we need to take our time to make smart, informed decisions with plenty of time for people to speak up and say “no”.

…and we already have improvements in the pipeline to make things better in the next year, as well as by 2024/2027.

But ok, fine, specifics about rail in RDU. So here we go.

@Recent posts on why it's a bad idea to make a RDU detour for the Durham-Garner commuter rail proposal

@CanesFan

There are a lot of limiting factors to take into consideration. The station would have to be at the end of a wye, thus requiring curved approaches [from any direction into the airport]. The line would have to weave its way into the complicated network of access roads already serving the airport as well. The wye would have to start/finish at a point no farther north than the south side of I-40, because a bridge or viaduct over the roadways north of that point would penetrate the clear areas required at the ends of the runways. Because of that, the curves for the wye would be a tighter radius. I think given the traffic volume at RDU, the expense of such a setup would be prohibitive from the start.

This post by @orulz

@OberlinSouth

That need for more passengers [on a Triangle commuter rail line] is also a reason I don’t think the money for a commuter rail should be spent to make that connection.

If you let the commuter rail do it’s own thing and make it as efficient and cost effective as possible, then it becomes the airport authority’s responsibility to take advantage of it. […] If the rail is a success and traffic becomes a bigger problem in the future, then RDU could request funds for a people mover on their own. […] That way they can decide how it works with their parking and bus situation, they can set the schedule, select luggage specific pods and charge whatever works for the ride.

Just to get everyone up to speed, in case you didn’t see the whole thing; sorry for the long post, again.