Weirdly, a new Brazilian steakhouse is about to open there. Seems like a risky place to start a new business. I guess the rent is cheap?
3 Likes
Rent is definitely cheap at TTC, they can’t give some of those storefronts away. Everything around the mall is actually doing quite well. Tons of new apartments, Poyner Place is always full, but the mall itself is just a big hole in the middle. Macy’s closing is no shock unless you’re shocked it didn’t happen sooner. I have to imagine they’re just waiting out the clock for Dillard’s, Belk, and Saks to cut bait before redeveloping entirely.
4 Likes
Saks also appears to be in financial trouble. So it’s possible they might close as well. Although it is the only location in the state, so they may hang around while/after TTC is redeveloped.
2 Likes
Given there are improvements to the existing bus stops on the property planned and potential BRT stations, the owners should look into developing or selling the parking lots first. It would be great to see a mixture of affordable and market rate housing be developed around the mall.
Something like this could suffice:
Moreno Valley Mall Redevelopment
14 Likes
see upthread: Raleigh-area Mall / Life-Style Center / RTP Redevelopments - #808 by paytonc
There’s precedent for a single department store kiboshing an entire mall redevelopment: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca4/13-2548/13-2548-2015-03-04.html
1 Like
The Saks store looks like an outlet at this point when I was there earlier in the fall. When one department store closes it can cause the others to close as they have in their lease. Belks has converted half their store to an outlet store now. I think it is time to seriously start some redeveloping efforts as the dominoes are starting to line up and fall. If Saks is just waiting out their lease and Macys is closed how long will it be before Belks pulls the plug Immediately the huge parking lots need to be developed into some housing apartments and townhomes. I have seen malls in a death spiral and this one is heading that way. However the positive is the location it could be nice open air with much smaller amount of retail in a more mixed used environment. Major malls in NC that are no longer: Eastland Mall Charlotte, Carolina Circle in Greensboro, South Square in Durham. Cary Town Center. Saks should open a smaller store at North Hills or even Crabtree.
4 Likes
I was surprised last year when Macy’s closed like 60 locations that the TTC and Northlake (Charlotte) stores survived. Both of those malls have followed an extremely similar path, and barring something wildly unexpected I don’t think either mall will survive for much longer. Northlake’s Macy’s is still hanging on somehow though.
2 Likes
Saks owns their building and land, so there is no lease to expire. I guess they could sell it, but who would buy it?
1 Like
Belks and Dillards probably own their spots too. Doesnt mean that can’t close the stores or try to sell them for redevelopment. It is a shame what has happened to that mall but I have seen it happen from coast to coast. I am not sure this developer has the means to lead a redevelopment. But the location is fairly good on I-540 and Capital Blvd.
2 Likes
A few thoughts on the potential of this area.
The primary multifamily product in North Raleigh is garden style apartments, many built between 1970 and 1985. Some of this have been renovated (eg the confusingly named Lofts at North Hills) but most are still depreciating. As with this project, it would be most efficient for these to be replaced with denser apartments or mixed use. I would love to see the city get out ahead of this by facilitating or even encouraging those redevelopments. This area is a long way from anything walkable in part because it is mostly a web of SFR neighborhoods, small retail centers, and these aging garden-style apartments. Which is fine, but if we can increase the amount of available housing and, as a result, the quality of the commercial development, that’s a net positive.
Which leads me to my next point. North Raleigh is already served by the really amazing Mine Creek Trail. The City is in the process of planning the greenway extension connecting Crabtree Creek and Cedar Hills Park (https://raleighnc.gov/projects/big-branch-greenway-connector). Below is a map showing the trails, together with the area’s commercial centers highlighted in red, aging garden-style apartments highlighted in orange, and new (post-2000) apartments highlighted in yellow, and the rezoning in maroon:
If the City included a trail connection between those two, an east-west trail between Optimist Park and Cedar Hills Park, it would turn these into a mini greenbelt around the heart of North Raleigh, and complement or increase the area’s development potential.
In my dreams where it doesn’t take a decade to get this stuff off the ground, this would work directly with the potential for trail-oriented development I’ve already written about.
12 Likes
It always seemed to me that the developers relied too much of the assumption that the wealth in a certain radius around the Triangle Town Center site would assure them success without realizing that the wealth was largely to their west, and that “wealth” largely didn’t focus their attention to the east.
At the time that this mall and Southpoint were being developed, I remember wishing that there would only be one mall built, and that it would go to the Brier Creek area where it could be more central between Raleigh and Durham. I still think that a mall there, instead of the other two, would have knocked it out of the park and would have activated a ton of development in southeast Durham county.
8 Likes
TTC came about during irrational exuberance for Wakefield.
7 Likes
Yes. If completed, Big Branch brings you to the bike lanes at Sandy Forks, which gets you to Northclift ( after a sketchy traverse of Six Forks that is never a good time…..)
Can’t come soon enough but feeling ever a loooong ways off.
1 Like
[quote=“Kevin, post:6402, topic:1184”] Everything around the mall is actually doing quite well. Tons of new apartments, Poyner Place is always full, but the mall itself is just a big hole in the middle.[/quote]
Very true. All the shopping centers surrounding TTC are doing well. I’ve been to Dick’s, Nordstrom Rack, Target, Marshalls, etc over the past few months and all bustling quite a bit. Especially Nordstrom Rack.
There’s shoppers in the area, they just don’t want to go to a mall.
3 Likes
It’s a perfect opportunity to mimic North Hills then! God knows that they have the land.
5 Likes
It’s not a “greenway” - but you can take the powerline easement from the west end of Cedar Hills Park and cross Six Forks at the intersection to be on Northclift for a brief moment to get to Optimist Park which then restarts the trail
They just need to put in a better “path” from Optimist Pool parking lot through the fields.
3 Likes
Oh this really takes me back. I used to take this route to Cedar Hills Park even though the main entrance was closer to my house lol. I’d also take it sometimes when I went to Sanderson (Class of 2006!).
2 Likes
Every store you listed except Target is not in Wake Forest. In my opinion, TTC is still around and surrounding shopping centers are doing well since they are convenient for those in Wake Forest and Northeast Raleigh; for example you don’t have to go all the way to Crabtree for some department stores. TTC however doesn’t have the large variety of high-end or well-known store like Crabtree does.
Read a good article today about Macy’s leveraging the Saks bankruptcy with growth for Bloomingdale’s. Bloomingdale’s has been growing steadily, particularly with their Bloomie’s concept which is a smaller store (20-50k sqft) that has locations in Seattle, suburban DC, Suburban NJ, and outside of Chicago. I could see Raleigh being a key market for them to test the concept, especially if Saks closes.
In terms of potential locations, TTC is out of the question, unless the owners decided to turn it into a NH-style center. North Hills could work depending on if they can find a location that fits the brand. Crabtree could also work with some moving around – particularly if Dicks House of Sport doesn’t take all of the old Sears space. The only other option is Fenton, which if Bloomie’s goes there, I’d say that destroys chances of NH or Crabtree getting any “luxury” department store in the future