Raleigh-area Mall / RTP Redevelopments

[BoyHowdy]

Big news out of Cary from Hines, the developers of Fenton. They’ve owned Waverly Place in Cary for a few years and there’s been a what APPEARED to be lull in the action on redeveloping and rezoning the destination center, one of very few in all of Cary where the town is striving for the greatest development intensities and be a regional designation.

Hines posted a long (34+ mins) video aimed at getting their rezoning approved AND especially for the very large PUD golf course community nearby (Lochmere) to not become NIMBY’s out of fear of change. There are nearly 2000 households in Lochmere spread across 24 subdivisions with nearly 20,000 residents (townhomes, apartments, cluster homes, single family homes, golf course homes, lakefront homes, etc.) going back to when it began development in the mid-1980’s.) That’s more people than who live in downtown Raleigh for example, and they could get up-in-arms about any changes to Waverly which abuts the neighborhood at the intersection of Kildaire Farm Road and Tryon Road, just off Cary Parkway and diagonal from Wakemed Cary.

Lot of discussion in the impressive 30+ min video about the threat of failure to adapt to changing retail habits that has happened nearby: the defunct Cary Town Center and even-worse-than-Triangle-Town-Center South Hills Mall. Hines is seeking to avoid that happening at Waverly by proactively making changes to a thriving destination center, and make it better, in the vein of Fenton nearby.

Plans are for 300-750 multifamily units in up to 7 floors by removing a movie theater (because, duh) and replacing a surface parking lots with garages wrapped by apartments.screening loading docks etc., and structured parking wrapped with decorative elements that are impressive looking to a novice like me.

Lots about density, walkability, sidewalks, crosswalks, bike paths, connectivity, much needed increased housing, traffic impact, parking, land use, noise, storm water runoff, open space, not creating sprawl, “by right” development of scary things like gas stations and car repair businesses if they don’t get rezoning approved.

Gotta hand it to Hines. They are SELLING this rezoning. Speakers include a partner from Hines who heads up NC and lives nearby Waverly, a land use attorney practice leader from Parker Poe, a prominent law firm, who led development of Fenton…also speaking in the video: the main landscape architect who’s been involved with North Hills, Streets at Southpoint, and Fenton, plus a storm water engineer and a traffic engineer from Kimley Horn who worked on North Hills and the Raleigh Convention Center.

Apparently this came about from a discussion the Hines NC practice leader was having with a local Lochmere resident, who suggested they educate the local impacted residents somehow, so they put together this dog and pony show. They did a slick job. Impressive.

So the “lull in the action” is no lull at all. They’ve been working behind the scenes positioning this rezoning to take Waverly up MANY notches from what it is today, which is already a very boutique but bougie shopping center. Their 6th rezoning submittal just went to Cary last month, so things are heating up over in Cary.

Some map and conceptual development images from the vid captured here.

[apbassett]

That is… extremely cool and impressive. I wish some projects in Raleigh got this treatment!

Also just really good news about the prospects of new density here.

[trueurbanist]

Another St. Albans Apartments construction update :

St Albans | 1/8/25

[GucciLittlePig]

And Fenton just keeps getting nicer. Finally I can go to Brewery Bhavana without having to be threatened by the Raleigh bus station.

[Speck]

Really wish this guy would video more buildings.

[trueurbanist]

Yeah same here, I wish he made aerial videos of the City Hall project and even the Dix GPP project.

[GucciLittlePig]

@trueurbanist

aerial videos of the City Hall project

Sorry, all you get is the city’s pixelated closeups that I share. I mostly do it for @Jake though

[rgmedd]

But then you have to be threatened by the Fenton parking deck crime.

[dtraleigh]

Made in Downtown Raleigh

[paytonc]

@BoyHowdy

Plans are for 300-750 multifamily units in up to 7 floors by removing a movie theater (because, duh) and replacing a surface parking lots with garages wrapped by apartments

Waverly Place has probably the most thoughtful layout of any local strip mall – it’s centered around a pretty pedestrian space, it’s named after a Greenwich Village street – but it’s always struggled. The weird parking lot between Enrigo and Gonza was always meant for a department store anchor; in plan, everything points towards that empty space. Yet not only did that never happen, nobody ever bothered to develop the space. (Looks like there was a 1999 plan to put a 16-screen cinema there, which would’ve been way better than the Crossroads location that ended up getting built at that time.)

I always thought that a big medical office building would be both in-demand and bring lots of foot traffic, but instead some little offices were built in the back with no obvious connection to the retail. I guess some 5-over-1 apartments instead are fine… if I were them, I might voluntarily look for a 55+ operator, given the proximity to hospitals.

I’m especially baffled by Lochmere NIMBYs, who could easily have a trail that almost connects their kitchen doors, along a pretty lake, to no less than a Whole Foods Market, the ne plus ultra of fancy amenities. Add this to the list of frustratingly missing last-quarter-mile trail connections that would actually make Capital Area Greenways into viable transport routes.

There was a previous redevelopment plan in 2006 that would have bulldozed the entire thing and replaced it with something more conventional, but that luckily died in the 2009 recession.

@wanderer

looks like SouthPoint owns the majority of the mall except for a few of the anchor stores

Southpoint’s owner bought JCPenney largely because it was then able to close and redevelop the Penney stores in its malls.

It’s usually easier to just buy out the department stores. In addition to owning their own land, department store anchors usually hold “reciprocal easement agreements” which limit what the mall owner (or the other anchors) can do with their property: “Decades-old accords known as reciprocal easement agreements, or REAs, made with anchor tenants at the nation’s mall have torpedoed owners’ redevelopment plans for years.”

[kjhburg]

Macys released their list of 66 store closures across the country today and not a single one in NC.
https://s202.q4cdn.com/285121676/files/doc_downloads/investors/FY-2024-Year-End-Closures-1-9-2025.pdf

[John]

I was just in Salem, OR in September and I was jealous that they had a downtown Macy’s. Well, I guess they won’t anymore.

[orulz]

More Cary stuff for y’all. This one is possibly the first step in the (inevitable) redevelopment and gentrification of the East Chatham/Chatham Square area.

While somewhat rough around the edges, this area houses perhaps the most extensive collection of interesting, authentic, hole-in-the-wall ethnic retail in the entire Triangle. Indian, Nepalese, Iraqi, Chinese, Ethiopian, Pakistani, Caribbean, Japanese, Mexican, Salvadoran… along with several pubs and breweries. You name it… it’s probably represented here. (Oh. And the DMV.) Anybody who calls Cary “beige” or “boring” is most likely unaware of, or chooses to ignore, this corner of town.

This new development is at 603 E Chatham St, just east of the new fire station. 22 units, 1200 sq ft retail. It’s a narrow building on a deep lot with surface parking so not exactly revolutionary, but it’s still a pretty big step to be putting residential in this location.

[GucciLittlePig]

And as usual, people in online Cary groups are losing their mind about this. Also, for reference, this is also across the street basically from Bond Bros Eastside. I agree that this is a very… interesting area of Cary, and BB seemed a little out of place honestly. But maybe they were just ahead of the curve.

[oakcityyimby]

Can I say that I think Cary is mostly beige and boring but absolutely has the best Asian food in the Triangle? Because I think they’re both true.

[John]

Oddly it’s the richest collection of global businesses housed in perhaps the blandest and most ordinary light industrial, car dependent collection of strip center buildings in the city… I mean town. It’s “beige” development in one of the most unfortunate ways possible.

Unfortunately this type of existing development probably makes it possible to have the rich collection of global businesses because the operating costs are lower than in places that are higher quality, more beautiful and walkable. It’s a conundrum that the greater Raleigh area needs to address and solve. In our efforts to make places better, we risk making them far less interesting and inclusive.

[oakcityyimby]

I grew up in Texas and California it is very widely known that the best and most authentic ethnic food spots are almost universally in the most nondescript strip malls. Cheap real estate, and many immigrants who came from crowded and chaotic cities like the peace and quiet of the suburbs for their families, so it’s close to the homes of their core patrons.

[evan.j.bost]

This is great. This side of Chatham st is overdue some investment, and it’s great that it’s not displacing any of the great ethnic businesses in that area

[Street_Grid]

Agreed that Chatham Square has an absolutely fantastic collection of diverse restaurants, probably the best in the area. (We got takeout from one of them last week). It would be really unfortunate if that were to change.

[trueurbanist]

Displacement is a real issue that often gets brushed off as NIMBYism on here. We don’t need, nor want, more bland and fake/corporate “communities” like Fenton replacing diverse communities that currently exist. At times there needs to be a limit to “modernization” or what I call the modern urban renewal ideal of certain groups, to preserve the uniqueness existing communities.