Raleigh’s Climate Action

The price of fighting climate change is something we will have to pay no matter what. It will get more expensive the longer we delay.

Housing, education, and healthcare are the biggest souces of pain for the American middle class. Things that the people who tend to espouse climate denialist views have no interest in fixing and in fact relish making worse.

Consider the consequences of being wrong. If I am wrong, and if 95% of climate scientists are wrong, we are switching off of an unsustainable resource that we’d have to abandon anyway at some point, and we pay a meager sum to make the switch which we also would’ve paid to maintain current infrastructure anyway.

If you’re wrong, along with the handful of conspiracy theorists that believe the same… the ice caps melt and half of all the cities on earth are underwater. I’m not a math surgeon but that seems bad for the economy?

I think many of us are considering all these variables. I am certainly prepared to learn I’m wrong about many things. I have no convictions that I am right really… only less wrong than people who are anti-science.

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“Climate” is more than “temperature,” my friend. Again, hope this helps:
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With a statement like this, I seriously question the sources you use when you “do your own research”.

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I just want to know why it is currently destroying our economy?

Also curious what carbon tax you are speaking of? The US does not have a direct carbon tax. We have the exact opposite. We subsidize fossil fuels.

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In good faith, I will add 2 compelling anthropomorphic phenomena that rarely get discussed when talking climate change. Humans are contributing to the desertification of vast areas through 2 mechanisms:

  1. We’ve destroyed or controlled nearly all the massive herding animals of the continents that used to freely roam the grasslands and fix carbon and water into the soil. 500 years ago, most continents were dominated by massive herds of migrating beasts that composted, aereated, and fertilized millions of acres of grasslands and savannah that stored gigatons of carbon and water in the soil. The great dust bowl is an example of the extreme effects that can happen when you disrupt the natural cycle of the grasslands, which made up large portions of N. America, Africa, Australia, and Asia.

  2. Not only have we removed the herding animals, but we’ve now paved over or compacted a huge section of earth with pavement, gravel, and buildings, which don’t allow water to penetrate the earth (see: flooding in NYC) and also create extreme heat island effects which disrupt microclimates (see: smog in LA), ultimately effecting the macroclimate when multiplied exponentially across the planet. These effects compound each other, as water landing on pavement immediately evaporates and forms more cloud-producing humid air masses, leading to precipitation somewhere else.

When water condenses from vapor to liquid, it releases thermal energy (latent heat) which is the fuel that allows hurricanes and mesocyclones to rapidly intensify. I’m certainly not an expert or scientist, and I have no idea what earth would be like right now if we were still in the stone ages with no buildings/highways/parking lots and herd animals still roaming, but if you look at how regenerative agriculture can convert desert to oasis, it’s pretty easy to see that we should be at least talking about that as a positive thing for climate change.

I think @largesevan is pointing out that climate/carbon policy at the international level is still convincing everyone in bad faith that fossil fuels are the #1 enemy, when in reality there are too many interdependent systems creating negative feedback loops to make a claim like that with scientific seriousness. What the end game/goal is, I don’t know, but I certainly know that car dependent suburban sprawl is hurting our environment and climate and society in many more ways than just carbon emissions.

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These links will somewhat explain the issues we’re facing, from climate change to biodiversity loss to ocean acidification:

All the meta-argument about whether climate change is happening and whether it’s anthropogenic seems a little veering from the topic of how Raleigh is working to address the problem. And hopefully the city doesn’t need any such arguments to take action, although one wonders how much good will be done if the state continues to shift along with the overall extremist shift of the nation’s conservative political groups. So I guess in a roundabout way it’s worth arguing about, although it doesn’t seem like that will ever do much good on the internet.

Still, I feel like doing some written processing of ideas. The mood doesn’t always strike me so I hate to let it pass by unfulfilled.

It feels to me like the “manipulative majority media” kind of objection is a smokescreen, whether a conscious one or not. It’s a fairly simple thought experiment: suppose the majority took the view that climate change was a poor theory, would you doubt them? If not, why not? Not being a climate scientist yourself, what other variables are you using to determine what’s trustworthy? Since your party is now the majority in this scenario, their majority should theoretically cause you to disbelieve them and call them powerful manipulators of public perception. You ought to flip and become a climate activist. That seems like a pretty nihilistic way to decide what’s real.

And one can follow that thread to another consideration: if you believe that climate change is a poor theory, the natural desire would be for others to share your viewpoint which you believe to be true. So your implicit goal would be to elevate climate denial to majority consensus, including that of the scientific community. How is that to be done? I would have to guess by the same tools which you complain about in the hands of your opposition: publishing of research, summarizations of that research for broader consumption via public media, and governmental policy changes.

So, ultimately, it seems to boil down to this for me: there’s a precondition that climate change isn’t real, which might come from any number of places (group allegiance, anxiety about the future, overwhelm at the idea of yet another crisis added onto far more immediate societal and personal crises). Rather than addressing this subjective feeling that climate change should not be real, the modern post-Enlightenment person finds a way to rationalize – because only rational viewpoints are acceptable. The rationalization draws on some pretty evident truths: modern media is sensational and manipulative, scientific consensus is rarely unanimous, and plenty of blatantly unproductive or possibly corrupt policies (like ‘carbon credits’ etc) have been proposed or tried in the name of climate change. These synthesize into a framework where the majority narrative can’t be trusted.

Like all people who believe the evidence presented, I wish it weren’t true. Given that I have no expertise at all in this field (although common-sense thermodynamics arguments like those given in this thread certainly seem straightforward), my framework for trustworthiness is pretty much as simple as following the reviewed, majority consensus of those who study the phenomenon (even if they are paid to do it! I would actually find it odd if they didn’t take a salary for doing something so specialized). If someone were to present a more effective framework for me to evaluate the trustworthiness of the results of a field of study I have no expertise in, I would consider it. “Do your own research,” I find insufficient; I am not a researcher, I only know enough to know that research is actually very difficult to do well. If I were to do research at a level I would be able to trust myself, I would need to be paid for it, and that would seemingly ruin my credibility.

Which is to say (in conclusion, hopefully), that all the climate research is still difficult to make immediately accessible to a layperson, which is damned unfortunate, because it actually plays pretty poorly in the media unless it’s simplified to the point of being near misleading (or that is my impression). It’s very hard to play the media mass manipulation machine with nuanced studies and reams of data. Modern media rewards simplicity, rapidity, and intrigue. Unfortunately, the only way climate science gets simpler, more rapid, and more intriguing… is if it progresses as many of us fear it is into frequent, catastrophic, blatant crises. Which would almost be a sort of hope… that the gravity and immediacy of the situation will eventually align with our awful profit-driven systems… except that one fears it will already be too late at that point.

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It’s 80 degrees in both Boston and Hampton, VA on October 28th

It got to 85 or so here in Raleigh 3 days before Halloween.

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What’s absolutely mind-bending about this line is that there IS a conspiracy of the world’s most profitable trillion-dollar corporations and their paid-off lackeys at the highest levels of government, who for decades knowingly HID THE TRUTH from you to protect their fortunes! It’s… just… well… take a look behind you. :exploding_head:
https://journalism.columbia.edu/two-year-long-investigation-what-exxon-knew-about-climate-change

What’s more, this particular industry has a long history of using conspiracies to expand and protect their business and ultimately reshaped the entire country so almost every American is dependent on purchasing and burning their poisonous products every single day: “over the course of several generations lawmakers rewrote the rules of American life to conform to the interests of Big Oil, the auto barons, and the car-loving 1 percenters of the Roaring Twenties.”

How rich and powerful is the fossil fuel industry? Just one example: the entire amount that Americans spent on bicycle sales and service in a full year is equivalent to what Americans spend in less than one day on cars and gasoline.

So if you want to be righteously angry about corporate greed and entrenched elites, start paying attention to the man behind the curtain!

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there has been a climate hoax that continues today. It is the decades’ long campaign by a handful of the world’s largest fossil fuel companies—such as Chevron, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, and Peabody Energy—to deceive the American public by distorting the realities and risks of climate change… The fossil fuel industry—like the tobacco industry before it—is noteworthy for its use of active, intentional disinformation and deception to support its political aims and maintain its lucrative profits.

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There’s a Planning Commission meeting on Jan 16 which has some proposed changes to development that should help make transportation “cleaner”.

This text change amends the Unified Development Ordinance to:

  1. Require electric vehicle infrastructure in the following uses and building types: apartments, hotels, standalone parking, and vehicle fuel sales. The requirement is that 20 percent of any parking spaces be “EV Capable,” meaning served by a conduit and adequate electrical panel capacity.
  2. Prohibit new drive-thrus in the following zoning districts: DX, OX, and in any district with an urban frontage.​​​​​
  3. Require, with new development, pedestrian connections to greenways; pedestrian connections from cul-de-sacs and dead ends; pedestrian connections in cases where exemptions to full street requirements exist or are created with zoning conditions or Planned Development applications.

http://go.boarddocs.com/nc/raleigh/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=CZBTAE766AF1

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