Downtown South could be like a Solider field situation, that why MLB Raleigh folks were excited when the rezoning news said it was approved!!! Because this could easily become a baseball stadium!!! Cause if an billionaire owner has interest he could pay the fee, make a bid, present at MLB Headquarters in New York, he wouldn’t have to worry about stadium plans if he would use Downtown South, as a stadium the only thing in that situation is negotiating with Kane and Malik as the owners, to maybe become tenant just like the Centennial Authority with PNC Arena, and while it s under construction can modify the stadium to be baseball ready professional baseball, Major League Baseball ready and with no city funding, or rezoning process since the rezoning for the stadium has already been approved!!! (hopefully Malik will open his mind past soccer!!! Cause MLS just isn’t coming here!!!)
Merry Christmas Eve -
Let’s play a game :
Name 3 local billionaires.
Now, name a sport they’re over the moon about.
Now, slot that square peg into the round hole…
“I’ll take the Pen Is Mightier for $600, Alex”
Peter Karmanos had no ties to Carolina, but was attracted to the market. Tom Dundon had no ties to Carolina or even the game of hockey, but he bought a hockey team in Carolina. David Tepper had no ties to Carolina, but purchased a football team here. There’s billionaires sitting in major cities that want to own a sports team, their issue is there is teams in the cities they live in already. If they want one bad enough they’ll find a city that’s attractive enough to place a team and make their dream come true. Never say never. Maybe downtown south and incentives make it an attractive destination for a future owner to move a team here.
All that said, the chances are slim. But I wouldn’t rule it out at all.
Thank you @Deekay93 that was a great point that almost the point if not the point I was tryna explain!!! Before @NoRaAintAllBad smart comment I’m not gonna play anymore of his silly little games, now Merry Christmas!!!
perhaps this position of the arena in this post
could be moved with some higher elevation to right over the RR tracks so they tunnel below the seating area. Just a thought. Gives plenty of room.
here’s the pic from the post I’m replying to, so you don’t have to go find it
There is a development proposed there called Salisbury square
Still think they should straighten Salisbury street to allow for the DECPA to expand in the future (Shaw moving their buildings to a new location). Once you build a 20-story tower strapping the curve on the road that’s it.
if a soccer only stadium is built without MLS guarantee i guess the plan is that it will host numerous soccer events? ncaa, high school championships…other amateur leagues?
Downtown South Project Gets Rezoning, Could Reshape Raleigh. in looking at the area in the above link is it only houses in caraleigh that would be gobbled up? it appeared to me that the A and B sections only bordered some residential areas.
Yep and can be retrofitted for Major League Baseball if we get a billionaire and the chamber of commerce and the City makes a bid, and he does a situation like the Centennial Authority like PNC to become a tenant in Downtown South and agree to retrofit it for Major League Baseball standards!!!
…or she
Yea that too!!! I’m not saying anyone couldn’t do it!!!
I feel such a love/hate for this project. Love the potential plan around this project, could be amazing once a few of the buildings go up. But hate that it’s not going to be a part of actual downtown. Slightly bums me that North Carolina could get another pro team someday and they’ll end up in DoSo vs actual downtown.
I think by that time downtown and DS will be connected
Well hopefully it will be
You part on pro teams fits my agenda!!!
Well, that right there is the argument that should be ongoing about using state/county funds for a soccer stadium.
MLS in Raleigh?
MLS chose Charlotte. Could they expand again? Yes. However, they would not cannibalize their newest franchise with another in-state team with 10 other cities vying for MLS expansion teams. So yeah, Raleigh could get an MLS team one day, but it’s not happening in the near future.
Soccer stadium without MLS
This is where it gets kind of muddy with the wording and selling by Malik and co. There’s no doubt about it, they would LOVE to move NCFC and The Courage downtown on the state/county’s dime.
If you were Malik, why wouldn’t you want that? No one is faulting him for pushing for it, but the point is, as residents, and taxpayers we should educate ourselves on what exactly we are getting, what we are giving up, and what value the people and the city will get from it. At the end of the day, the residents and the city/state need to look at ROI for putting up stadium money, to basically relocate an existing team that is about on average (attendance-wise) for their respective leagues.
Usage: NCFC + Courage + What else?
When I say ROI, what I mean is how often are you going to be able to fill this stadium? You want to have guaranteed tenants that take up a majority of the dates, and then you can have your sales team do their best to fill it up when it’s not being used.
Think about the PNC. That arena was built with Hurricanes and NC State basketball as guaranteed tenants. Hockey has 41 home games and NCAA basketball usually has at least 15 home games (the arena sits almost 20k). So that’s 56 guaranteed dates. And then because it’s a fully enclosed arena, they have a contract with Live Nation to bring a few concerts a month, some diney on ice stuff, monster truck shows, the circus, etc. That is why arenas are such great investments. They have so many uses.
Open-air soccer stadiums? Well, not so much.
If we built a soccer stadium, would we build it for future use, to seat 20k like most MLS stadiums do? And if we do that, what if we never get MLS?
Or do we build it to fit it guaranteed tenants in NCFC and The Courage. Both of whom average about 5k fans per game. Sure, downtown would increase their attendance, so do you build a 10k seat stadium for them? And if you do that, is that really worth the tax money? These teams play a combined 30 home games per season.
How do you fill it the rest of the time? Let’s look around the nation. How are MLS stadiums being filled outside of soccer? THe answer is, they really aren’t. There is the occasional concert, but no MLS stadium is getting consistent usage outside of MLS.
Why is that and could Raleigh do it differently?
The answer is, because it’s risky. The stadium is open-air and weather is unpredictable. Moving large temporary stages on to fields is expensive, and ruins the turf. To add to that, Raleigh is not in need of a concert venue. We have PNC Arena for large acts. We have Walnut Creek (or whatever its called now) for a permanent large outdoor concert experience, and we have Red Hat Amphitheater for the smaller, mainstream acts. Sure, Red Hat will be gone in the next decade, but that is when they propose to have the Dix park amphitheater completed. Add in DPAC in Durham and Koka Booth in Cary, and the Triangle is in no way lacking concert space.
So who is going to fill this stadium? This question needs to be answered IMO, before the public and the city can make a educated decision on whether or not they want tax money to fund this.
MLB in Raleigh?
That brings us to MLB. We were excited to see the rezoning because it opens the door. As stated, the stadium is a ‘down the road’ thing and most perceive ‘stadium’ to mean the proposed soccer stadium. But with a massive developer like Kane and land zoned for a stadium close to downtown, in a market viable for MLB, with MLB potentially looking to expand…
All it would take is an investment group from anywhere (doesn’t need to be local) to approach Kane about that ‘stadium’ housing an MLB team that they want to bring to Raleigh.
Do you really think Kane balks at that? Even with Malik in the mix, I’d say the answer would be no and I believe Malik would then work on ways to house NCFC/ The Courage in that baseball stadium. I know I’ve shared this multiple times, but I’ve done so because it’s an important and really unarguable fact that despite the perception, MLB is a stadium filler. People go to games, and games are played often.
With the developer, the land and a city that seems to be ready for pro sports, Raleigh is now in a very good position to attract an MLB investment group. Portland and Nashville both have groups, but neither have land zoned for a stadium (which is the hardest part).
The dominoes have fallen like we were hoping they would and while it’s likely still a long shot for Raleigh to land an MLB team, the groundwork has never been more prepared than it is right now.
This is the most well-constructed argument from any side that I’ve seen so far in the debate over the Downtown South stadium. Very well done, bravo.
I just don’t see a soccer stadium being combined with a baseball stadium. The fields are too different. It didn’t work for football & baseball (I think the old Oakland coliseum was the last of the combined stadiums). And a soccer field is bigger then a football field, so it would be even more challenging. Maybe there is an example out there somewhere of where this has worked, but I would be surprised.
High Point & Gastonia stadiums are both new & they are built for minor league baseball , minor league soccer , & football . Their soccer nets are in right field & the 3rd base area . You have to have artificial turf
because of same day games with soccer & baseball plus the season wear & tear . If you are interested , google both High Point & Gastonia Stadiums to see their fields .