Raleigh Stadium/Arena/Sports Discussions

[xdavidj]

@daviddonovan

Luckily my argument is not based on any of those things that I never mentioned. The lack of an interstate highway can’t change, and the presence of a well-organized residential neighborhood right next to the campus can’t change. Some of those other things can change over long periods, maybe, but the Tampa Bay Rays are currently homeless. They don’t have a few years down the line. They need to solve their problems ASAP. (And, seriously, a highway connection? Where? How? With what money? Do you have any idea how long it takes to bring that sort of thing from idea to fruition, even when you don’t have to do it over the dead bodies of every resident of Oakwood?)

I’m not sure if my last comment was fully addressed, as it specifically pointed out that this could be about a longer-term plan, not the Rays’ immediate situation. Yet, your entire counterargument is still anchored to the Rays needing a solution ASAP. That’s not what I’m arguing.

It feels like you’re selectively responding to parts of my argument while ignoring the core point: this might not be about the Rays at all, but rather a broader strategy that could take years to unfold. If you’re going to engage, at least address the actual argument I’m making instead of sticking to a narrative I’ve already said might not apply here.

@daviddonovan

You’re not buying what they’re selling because you personally wish they had said the opposite of what they said. When developers buy a plot of land and say they want to build a particular thing on it, we generally don’t assume that they’re being deceptive and they secretly want to do the exact opposite of what they said, especially something that would be vastly more expensive and difficult on so many levels. There’s no reason to think that here, other than that you personally wish it were so, and that’s not a good reason. Also, this company has never, not once, actually a built a stadium.

Let me clarify something: I’ve never said, nor implied, that I want an MLB stadium in Oakwood. My argument isn’t based on personal desires; it’s about looking at the bigger picture and connecting the dots based on what I know. If anything, I’m just pointing out how developments like this have unfolded in the past and why dismissing the possibility outright ignores the fluid nature of these situations.

Your assumption that I ‘want it to happen’ is a complete fabrication. I’m not arguing for or against a stadium here—I’m simply skeptical of the current narrative because history shows that plans, goals, and circumstances change. Developers buy land, public stances evolve, and what seems unlikely today can become reality tomorrow. That’s just the nature of urban development and major projects.

@daviddonovan

Name one. Literally one.

Here’s two:

https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/agnos-homespun-crusade-to-block-warriors-arena-5004337.php

Opponents of Atlantic Yards Are Exhausted by a Long, Losing Battle (Published...

Challenges to stadium projects happen all the time—financially, infrastructure-wise, and politically. Whether it’s opposition over public funding, concerns about traffic, or legal battles over land use, these obstacles are almost guaranteed with any major development. These are just a few recent examples where significant pushback and hurdles were overcome. Acting like these challenges don’t exist, or aren’t regularly resolved, doesn’t change the fact that they happen all the time and don’t necessarily stop a project from moving forward.

@daviddonovan

I have an extremely healthy skepticism–that there will ever, ever be an MLB stadium on SAU’s land.

Good. But don’t pretend it’s impossible—it isn’t. When a company that literally states on their ‘About Us’ page that their goal is to build stadiums buys a big piece of land, maybe it’s time to consider that smoke instead of ignoring it completely. Taking them at their word, without questioning the broader possibilities, isn’t skepticism—that’s just blind trust. Until there’s a shovel in the ground and they’re actually building housing, staying skeptical of their real intentions makes more sense.