The problem with what you’re saying, though, is that none of it is actually true. Much of Indianapolis’s annexations happened in the 1960s. By 1980, its population was 700,807. That was actually down from 1970, when it was 744,624. (It’s gone up consistently since then.)
In 1980, there were 301,327 people living in the entirety of Wake County. So, yeah, it was definitely a “population thing.”
So it’s not about annexation. In the 80s and 90s, Indianapolis was way bigger than Wake County as a whole. Today, Wake County is not only bigger than Indianapolis, it’s bigger than Marion County as a whole. Wake County has undergone extraordinary growth in the last 40+ years, of a sort that few other counties in America have seen.
Why have Raleigh and Wake County grown so much in the last 40+ years? Because of our willpower. Because of our vision. Because of our leadership. We’re like a people magnet. People are coming here in droves to be part of this great city. Indianapolis is nice and all, but it can’t say that about itself like we can.
Austin has major league soccer, I believe, and all the sports aligned with UT. Raleigh has hockey, even though it is played 5 miles from DTR AND all the sports aligned with 3 major Universities!
Now for Buck and the signs. Raleigh and most of the Triangle counties and cities, passed sign ordinances that actually removed long stretches of billboards (WF Rd, ITB for instance) and limited them and other signs throughout the region. Can you imagine I 40 between Alamance and Johnston Counties plastered with billboards every 50’. These ordinances allowed for the natural beauty of the area to be our signature. My impression of Austin is it’s big and choked with billboards and all other kinds of signs. Between the signs, it’s pretty for Texas, but their signs will never be gone. Go Raleigh! Thanks leaders of the 1980s.
Funnily enough, Albany did go with the big “forward-thinking” 60s/70s public works and proceeded to destroy most of their historic center with the cool-looking but completely single-use Empire State Plaza complex, and then cut themselves off from the Hudson and the south side of the city with enormous highways. Oops.
On the positive side - they do have a downtown minor-league hockey arena.
Smart investments in higher education and RTP is what started Raleigh’s tremendous growth. Investments in stadiums didn’t do that for Indianapolis – but maybe Indy’s lack of growth required a tourism strategy. Each locality is different and that’s ok.
I prefer to think about stadiums as amenities and not tools for growth or revenue. Now that Raleigh/Wake has a large population and a base of corporate jobs, certain “big-city” amenities are expected by the population. Stadiums – just like parks, recreation, shopping, and dining options – are part of that mix. Raleigh should invest in stadiums, not for growth, but to serve the current population!
MVP Arena is a nice building especially after the recent renovations, however it has a bunch of issues of its own. While it is big enough to still get concerts and other events, its size is a bit too big for minor league hockey which played a role in the AHL leaving and the ECHL steering clear to date. Indoor football has usually done well and the jury is out on the NLL’s Firewolves.
Conversely, the Capital District and baseball have had an odd relationship: two suburban parks built in the last 40 years, the first (Heritage Park in Colonie) was obsolete a decade in, closed a decade later, and rotted for a third. Joe Bruno Stadium at HVCC in Troy is decent, but again doesn’t have much around it. This may have played a role that when MiLB pruned that the ValleyCats got demoted to an indy league while Binghamton, a worse market in every metric, kept their MiLB team with worse attendance.
Back to other matters, Erastus Corning was a de facto tyrant and the fact he served for 42 years should give anyone pause and he flat out laid down for Nelson Rockefeller w/r/t Empire State Plaza. Fun fact, Albany has had only four mayors since WWII (Corning, Tom Whalen, Jerry Jennings, Kathy Sheehan).
Thanks @daviddonovan for doing the heavy lifting on the population stats for Raleigh/Wake. I couldn’t have done it better myself! You are speaking my language.
For those who don’t have a long history in Raleigh, or haven’t studied the data in the way that @daviddonovan has, there’s a lot of truth in what he says and what the data reveals. At this point, Raleigh is like the 18 year old that grew 5 inches taller during high school but has yet to fill out that frame. Even then, it’s remarkable where the city is today compared to where it was at the beginning of the Century.
Raleigh in any number of states would be the superstar city without competition, but the city shares the state with not only Charlotte, but also its metro area with Durham. The city continues to fly under the radar despite all the data that would suggest otherwise. It also doesn’t help that Raleigh has traditionally been the “good guy” cooperative regional player while our brethren were arguably more inwardly focused and assertive.
Wait a minute, the old Exploris property is a perfect size for an arena no?
I have measured the Nashville hockey arena bowl and it’s about 555 feet by 200 feet. This property has more than enough for that plus amenities and even other buildings/parking.
Here’s my take on this topic. I’m personally not invested in the idea of just finding a place where an arena will fit. This particular parcel is bounded by 2 high capacity roads that primarily move folks from one place to another within the city. In other words, they are no activated pedestrian oriented streets. To its NE, the site is bounded by a railroad corridor that has a pinch point for access to the site.
One can easily imagine that a site like this would function much like the arena today with nearly everyone driving there and interacting only with the inside of the building because it’s not a location where it’s going to be easy to activate its immediate surrounds .
I’d rather identify where an arena should be and then solve for the barriers.
Salisbury Square project plus whatever goes into the Raleigh Chamber of Commerce property should add pedestrian activity here. Especially since Salisbury Square will add a public courtyard area. Plus update the bridge so that it’s expanded even maybe cover up most of the tracks.
I would say that those ‘high capacity’ roads are over-built anyways. Downtown Raleigh shouldn’t be a highway bypass that it is now.
While I agree with this statement in concept, I doubt that there’s any political will to make significant changes to how these particular roads operate. The N/S corridor especially was Raleigh’s compromise that allowed it to avoid a freeway plowing through downtown.
“Capping” the existing railroads at about Elevation 350’ (roughly level with Hillsborough, Morgan and Boylan bridges.
Total about 14.8 acres reclaimed from unusable space.
Hargett Street is scheduled to close due to the at-grade rail crossing anyway. The west side could be the service/loading access for the arena between the tracks at the current grade level.
Transit: Some new parking decks to keep parking out of Boylan residential area. Direct connection from the plaza to the train platform. Directly adjacent to the bus hub and also the West/Harrington cycle tracks.
Arena could have rooftop lounges or curtain walls along the upper concourses would offer amazing views of the city.
I feel like Glenwood South would benefit tremendously with all the post game/concert activity as it would be natural for them to wonder out that direction afterwards. That’s why I always felt like the original NCFC/MLS pitch on the unused government land woulda been better than Downtown South. It’ll take years for any sort of bar/restaurant scene to build up near DTS, but this and the government land already has.
On a side note, I’m just imaging the storm the Boylan Heights crowd would put up if someone ever proposed something like this
Only if the NC gov claimed it didn’t have moving parts. One time during the MLS bid i called a representative representing my district on the mls bid and state land during the call I heard an aid laugh In the background. And the he forward me to a call a message call to his office. They really never gaf about Raleigh, it one of the reasons why i see no win or lose if there were able to move the capital away from Raleigh to Rocky Mount or something like that. It would’ve been a great opportunity there.
I love it, and it’s worth it to dream. There are two arenas in NYC and one in Boston built on top of commuter rail lines, so there’s no reason this couldn’t work other than people choosing the path of least resistance.
I think the biggest hurdle would be vehicular transit infrastructure getting in and out of that area. The roads around this area are certainly not designed to support large crowds in and out all at once. I’m certainly not advanced enough to propose any solutions, so if someone wants to jump in with something that would be great.
But yeah- it would be really slick to put something major right there with the train station and RUS Bus being so close.
storm the Boylan Heights crowd would put up if someone ever proposed something like this 