Might take a lot of heat for this here but do we genuinely think a downtown stadium is better than an upfitting of PNC.
Having been to Columbus, LA, Boston, New York, and New Jersey’s hockey arenas, the game day culture just isnt as good. Yes we could use some bars and restaurants but PNC, for its age, has done phenomenally.
Spend $500 million on upgrading PNC versus a $1 billion stadium (that would likely be put behind a new Panthers stadium for public funds), seems like a no brainer to me.
Where does PNC fit downtown, and does it really make a difference outside of gamedays to whatever area it is in?
This might come over as a lot, the prayers for a downtown stadium are just a little tiring since it’s one not necessary, and two maybe not even a better option.
I think that might be a bit of hometown pride talking (not that that’s a bad thing).
As a Sharks fan, I’d say the experience of Rangers, Devils, and Canadiens (another downtown stadium) games felt easily as big or bigger as Canes games, without all the annoyance of gameday parking and wondering what to do between work and gametime or after the game.
On a more Canes-centric note, looks like the towers downtown are starting to switch over to red lights for Stadium Series week. It looks really cool!
Some of the most recent I can think of are SoFi and UBS Arena, neither of which I’d say are urban.
In the pipeline are maybe the new A’s stadium and a few other (seemingly) long shots that are centered around urban areas (Calgary Flames, Tampa Bay Rays, even Inter Miami). Seems like these deals are more complex and more than typically don’t get done.
On the other hand, the Bills seem to be marching right on to build a new stadium outside of Buffalo.
To me the choice is between a pretty much brand new feeling PNC Arena in 5-10 years with a built out surrounding area, or maybe a cheaply built shell of an urban arena in 20 years.
FWIW I do have some bias, I used to be pro downtown Canes arena, then I got more into the tailgating culture, started to go to more Canes away games and realized, while I would like to be able to walk to get food after, I wouldn’t trade what makes the Canes unique (at least in the NHL) for a Buffalo Wild Wings and a cheap sports bar.
Buffalo new stadium is the exception to the rule because Buffalo city center is a dead shell that will not be revived any time soon.
Either way, all these plans have zero means to keep the Canes at PNC Arena.
Imagine if we spent $500 million and then Dundon says he worked out a private deal to move the Canes to Cary or out of state. Lol other than the lease that expires in 2029. There’s nothing keeping the Canes at PNC arena.
As someone who has never been to a Canes game and only one State football game in the past 20 years, I have no strong opinions either way. HOWEVER, as someone who works in Wade Park, I would welcome additional lunch options nearby. Would be nice to be able to walk from Wade Park over to the arena area (via the tunnel) for more than 3 options for lunch.
I’ve been a long-time proponent of having a downtown arena. I am still in favor. However, I don’t think it is as important as it would have been when the Canes moved in the 1990s. At that point, Raleigh (and many other cities) has struggling downtowns looking to revitalize and a downtown arena would make a marquee attraction to kick off growth.
Now, downtown Raleigh is on a growth curve and doesn’t need an arena to grow. An arena in the right place might still be a net-positive, but isn’t a requirement to kick off growth.
A downtown south stadium that can anchor an urban neighborhood or a renovated PNC that turns that area into a 24-7 neighborhood, could be good for the city overall. I hope the PNC area investments are not just restaurants and bars, but are true multi-use (residential, office, hotel, shopping).
I tend to agree with you. I’m not sure I necessarily considered a downtown arena as a particular growth engine, more to compliment, but at this point with all the growth downtown Raleigh, even without the big Apple/Meta/Google employment, DTR is doing fine and on a great trajectory. I don’t think it would hurt, only add, if an arena/stadium were built in DTS. It is critical however that we establish excellent connectivity and that should include North Hills so all 3 centers are convenient.
Don Waddell, the president of the Canes mentioned building a few hotels when talking about the potential development around PNC. So I definitely think a full scale multi use space is what they’re envisioning.
Imo, the people that actually tailgate at Canes games are in the vast minority of fans in attendance, at least based on my experience both going to games at game time and tailgating at games. I don’t think there’s anything that would stop us from making a tailgating/grilling/tent area in a new stadium to replicate that experience for the fans that want it.
For the other fans that aren’t tailgating, I think finding a way to give them a good experience is worth it. Whether it be building up around PNC or building a stadium near downtown. It’s really hard to build an enjoyable all-day experience without having to wait an hour to leave a parking lot.
I believe in the WRAL article they mentioned a 4-5 year construction timeline, so I think it’ll be built out during the summers when the Canes and State aren’t playing.
I know the islanders and Coyotes have played a full month at the start of the season on the road to allow for their stadiums to finish construction so I suppose that would be an option as well to give them an extra month each year.
We can probably guarantee a return to Greensboro isn’t happening
Think about it this way….through a local economic lens.
All the pro-tailgaters run to out of state HQ’d grocery chains; load up their SUVs & thats all they spend. I get it. Grocery stores hire local people.
BUT!!! This is a Downtown Raleigh focused development website.
The ONLY way you maximize what we all supposedly care about by visiting this site is to build our arenas & stadiums DOWNTOWN.
The local economic impact downtown stadiums will offer will Quadruple what a suburban based arena like we currently have provides.
Downtown stadiums/arenas will drive:
high rise developments of all kinds that generate tax revenue in a way suburban developments will never provide…not even close
The visitor spend will be spread across a multitude of restaurants, bars, hotels, even city owned parking decks……not out of state Harris Teeter & Publix. Many of these businesses will be locally owned. Today, “tailgaters” climb back in their SUV & drive back to Clayton or Wilson.
I was in Nashville before, during, after a Predators game (didn’t attend the game myself) and there were fans of the Preds and whoever they were playing (can’t remember) in every bar, restaurant, shop we went to. The game day vibe there was exceptional.
Hopefully the city realizes downtown arena works whether that’s Dix Park (no y’all don’t want that), downtown south is a great area. Me and my dad we’re talking you know still a majority of you guys want Raleigh to be a quaint town which annoys me but honestly quite true. And the way this is being handled shows that. Why not use the large park space or downtown I don’t know who said empty in the middle of parking should be the solution. If I was in council I promote using some city-owned lane for an arena we could literally axe, red hat amp, and the small town like police hq for that space oh I forgot there apartments. So we could put it by Walnut Creek and Rock Quarry.
I’ve always liked the idea of a downtown arena but I now think the path of least resistance (and therefore best success) would be going forward with renovations and much more focus on building up the district.
I think Raleigh has the chance to offer the best of both worlds for an active gameday “urbanish” experience while also maintaining the traditional tailgating culture. The wooded area between the parking lots and Edwards Mill seem like the best option and could even have a sort of boardwalk / active uses facing the creek?
I don’t think PNC will be ever to match that type of experience. Having an arena right off Broad street is like having something off Glenwood South. I think the best we can hope for is something like The Battery in ATL or maybe having something like the Fenton in/around the stadium.
