It is correct that downtown by itself has organic and natural life now (18h city) however I am still a proponent of a stadium downtown
Honestly, as DTR gets more dense, the events will move away anyway. The densest part of the city is rarely the most event-oriented. And it gets to a point where big events become a huge headache for the people who work and live there.
Mind you, we’re not there yet. But the more surface lots and auto-oriented businesses get redeveloped, the more crowded it’ll be on daily basis.
Also, I’m not saying I’m against a downtown stadium. I have high design and urban form expectations for it so I’ll be heavily advocating for that as I fear a stadium might cause a dead zone if built incorrectly.
However, if leaders think downtown needs a boost therefore build a stadium, I strongly disagree and think that’s the wrong approach.
I just don’t know how it works. There’s no good space for one and no infrastructure to support it. I think the ship has sailed on a downtown stadium and we have so many other things we need to spend money on.
This was the case with the 50 road races that used to take place downtown. Eventually it got to be a pain to have to navigate around closed roads every weekend. I wonder how much Fayetteville St always hosting various events contributed to the recent rash of closings on the street (save for Wahlburgers which was a dumpster fire all on its own. )
Unless Raleigh actually gets an MLS team, or the Hurricanes and Wolfpack decide either they can’t co-exist anymore or they both want a new arena, the downtown stadium does seem pretty unlikely.
And, I agree, at best it seems like it would be downtown adjacent. Somewhere between 1-40 and MLK.
I still think the better way to go is to create a transit connected entertainment district around PNC.
The only other place I would support a billionaire paying for his own arena would be on the sea of parking lots in the Northern end of downtown (and I don’t know how you get people in and out of downtown easily without major transit upgrades.) Hell even take the Legislative building too
Totally agree @dtraleigh/@JosABanks. The last 3-5 year have welcomed an explosion of residential and businesses downtown. That in itself can drive a lot of hotel use. Family visiting, coworkers/executives from out of town. And as you see in this forum, it’s not slowing down. Of course a stadium and sporting events would only add to that demand.
I wouldn’t put the stadium in dead center downtown either but certainly on Cargill site or the dilapidated government parcels south of Peace. Certainly it needs to meet design/urban expectations
I also want to add that the arena district of Columbus, OH, a very similar town to Raleigh in regards to being a college town with similar industries (yes, slightly larger in population) has a very cool walkable design to it. There’s really no dead space around it as restaurants and retail are adjacent and get a good amount of business from events. I’m sure you can poke plenty of holes in the comparisons, but I like what they’ve done there and it is smack in downtown.
GLeo , I think that You & Others are more right on this post than I am concerning our downtown ! I believe that if we do have a downtown stadium , city council would only approve a first class project like our Union Station . I’m getting ready to drive a semi now until tonight but will be available later tonight .
I’m pretty obviously not on team downtown arena. But I think that’s a good comparison. From what I can tell the arena district is one of downtown’s edges? The Cargill site would be a good analogue, particularly if we created a “district” around the stadium that connected to MLK.
If the arena was done as part of a bigger development (instead of saying “if we build this arena other people will build here too”) like the Banks in Cincinnati, it could really expand the urban core of Raleigh.
This is what they are doing in Tampa. The lightning owner bought up a lot of land around the arena and is basically creating a downtown for the area. I would be fine with the city partnering with the Canes as a developer on a site like Cargill. The team gets development rights on the land with some sort of deal to compensate the city and maybe there are some incentives. There will have to be tight development timelines and guidelines on the surrounding land to ensure something gets built. The Penguins got the rights to develop the old Civic Arena site as part of their arena deal and have let if sit empty for years making money off it as a parking lot.
Haven’t thought it completely through, but there’s a lot of dead space between the warehouse district and Boylan. Could build en elevated platform at elevation 350’ (level with Morgan St & Boylan Ave) and have trains run underneath . Could even have an entrance into the 2nd or 3rd level of the RUS BUS parking deck development. Biggest hurdles are the closing of Hargett (which ends 2 blocks west anyway) and the 30 foot elevation difference at the east edge of the ‘platform’ at Hargett St.
There are people in Boylan currently losing their minds over the lights on the parking deck for Origin/One Glen calling them “intrusive and overdone” and saying they ruined the trip out of the neighborhood. This would give them a full on coronary.
They always have and always will…lol
I once lived there myself…
I always thought the Bloomsbury Estates parking lot was a huge waste of space and an eyesore. Who manages Bloomsbury? I would assume a good quick buck scheme would be to sell that land off for a parking deck or parking deck/mix use building. I’m sure the condo owners would love to have covered and gated parking garage.
It was supposed to be two buildings but the Great Recession killed the second building and caused the first one to have units sold from the clearance rack. Also they do have some covered parking but I’m not sure how many spaces… maybe one a unit? idk
I am with you @dtraleigh it took me by surprise that anyone thinks downtown is on any kind of trend towards dying. I think some older folks have a fear/memory of the 80s and think downtowns from that period could just sneak up again at any moment. This also makes me think that the reasons downtown is doing well now are not so well understood. A really unheralded aspect of downtown doing well has been more people living there. The number of people in apartments living and going out downtown has been a big deal. Hopefully that number will keep growing and more condo’s will be part of it. I lived in the Devon for 2 years and we did everything downtown. Then when my wife and I bought a house we bought as close as we could afford. We pretty much pump all of our money into ITB and downtown. Big downtown attractions are not bad and certainly help, but it is not THE reasons downtown doesn’t collapse.
Sorry, unless I missed it, I haven’t read anywhere that anyone thinks that downtown is on a trend towards dying…?