I was referring to this, which Leo replied to, and I replied to Leo. At least the string was like this in my head. Maybe dying is to strong a word. That is fair.
NE corner of MLK and S. Saunders intersection is perfect for a downtown arena. Just as depicted in the Gateway Center concept rendering. https://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/local/2014/09/12/13978248/gateway-578x480.jpg
I find the realignment of Wilmington/Salisbury Streets to be interesting in that picture. I know it’s only conceptual, but that could be an important part of an eventual redevelopment of the MLK/Saunders interchange.
Ok this could actually work.
I like the MLK/S Saunders idea. I was also wondering if the DMV site on Tarboro is big enough for an arena. It’s a little out but walkable from Fayetteville St area.
Here’s some excellent background reading on the Centennial Authority and educates a bit on the structure we have around our current arena. Important to know this with any new talks of a sports conplex that may include the Canes or NC State.
Remembering that a lot of negotiations are nothing more than posturing is going to be key to maintaining your sanity
Right off the bat, this subtitle seems like something that all of us on this forum might as well have tattooed right into our brains…
Thanks for the find. It’s a surprisingly easy-to-read but thorough look at who’s who and how we got here for issues with the Centennial Authority (plus how to start reading between the lines in political/economic news pieces).
I guess, for our purposes, this article is a nice indicator that we may want to focus on perfecting the relationship between NC State, the Canes, and the Authority? I think it’s inevitable that any conversation about value propositions for a new stadium would bring up the PNC Arena -I mean, it’s right next door; if you want to build a stadium in Raleigh and want to make sure your investment isn’t a stupid idea, what better case study could you ask for?
If so, I wonder if this is a sign that the Raleigh community (both as a whole, and politically) might not be ready for another stadium at all? If we haven’t figured out how to balance one facility for college sports, pro sports, and concerts in a single-use environment, how can you expect that same formula to work downtown, where there’s more moving parts involved?
This is a fair question, but I have to wonder if a downtown stadium (in particular) would play out the same way if we were building for a potential MLS stadium. Certainly it would be discussed, and rightfully so, to position such a project as a potential location for NC State Soccer in particular, if not soccer for the greater college community, but the context of its creation could certainly be different.
The power struggle among NC State, the Hurricanes, and the Centennial Authority has been, among other things, the result a lot of hands in the cookie jar. How should the interests of each party be balanced vis-a-vis their investment in the arena, and their importance to its ongoing viability? It’s a tricky situation. The land the arena occupies is NC State’s, and the Wolfpack Club raised $22M for its construction. The city and county matched the Wolfpack Club’s giving with $22M of their own through hotel, food and beverage taxes. The Canes ponied up $20M of their own. Now, I know it’s more complicated than that, but my point is that there were a lot of disparate entities with their hands in that cookie jar, and rightfully so. From NC State’s perspective, I can imagine this being the most complicated issue that the Athletic Director faces.
IMO, the lesson learned is that there needs to be a much simpler funding process and operating model for any future downtown stadium. I’m not so sure that it’s a lack of political will, as much as it’s how to be clear about ownership or perceived ownership. If there’s too many entities that perceive ownership, I think that’s where the challenges germinate.
Thanks Leo for sharing this information . Changing the subject , I talked to Officer Ainsworth’s Sergeant today & Officer Ainsworth is learning to walk again ! If anyone is interested , SECU has set up a donation account for our officer .
There’s a chance that Canes Country is right, and the new Hurricanes owner is just jockeying for position with the lease.
There is also the chance that he bought the Canes with plans to eventually move them. I know he said he wont, but he paid over valuation for a team that was recently $250 million in debt (now only $100 million in debt). He has no NBA team to help anchor the arena, and there has been a sour relationship with the only other tenant, NC State.
Meanwhile Raleigh is 2nd fastest going metro area in the nation since 2010 (only Austin has grown faster), yet the Hurricanes continue to sit near the bottom in attendance every year.
I’m not saying Dundon is going to move them, but I am saying that it shouldn’t be a surprise if he starts making a big fuss about the stadium situation in hopes of creating a scapegoat that justifies a potential move.
In today’s TBJ there is a article that states PNC / MLS will seek $600 million for future sports projects !
The Canes attendance is actually remarkable when you consider the nontraditional market and the embarrassing fact the team has missed the playoffs for 10 years. I don’t know what their TV deal is like tho and that’s a big revenue generator. I think it’s mostly posturing by TD as he needs to get concessions from the Authority on scheduling, the overall lease and maybe even a practice facility as the Canes current practice rink has to be one of the worst in the league.
There is an substantial relocation fee for moving an NHL team. I believe the Winnipeg owners had to pay $60 million to relocate the Thrashers from Atlanta back in 2011. That’s a little more than pocket change even for a billionaire.
Friends of Raleigh Wake propose an athletic stadium facility in Southeast Raleigh, either at the Cargil site or on South Saunders (maybe the lot by the Red Roof Inn?) they’re asking for money for a feasibility study. This doesn’t seem to be a major stadium project but rather a multi use facility. Has anyone else heard anything about this ?
I’m guessing the fee would go up if a team gets close to relocating again as the NHL just raked in almost a billion in expansion fees. But a city like Quebec would easily pay $60 million if they had a chance to get a franchise back. Thankfully the league doesn’t have much interest in adding another Canadian team and I don’t think Houston is clamoring for a team either.
Yes , I have heard about this . If it hasn’t changed , some of the friends are two former Raleigh Mayors & Mr. Bruce Lightner. I have talked to Mr. Lightner concerning this .
I just checked and the Hurricanes attendance is getting better this year. Their recent win streak should help. If they could make a run at a playoff spot that would also help. I do think that a downtown arena would help Raleigh people identify better with the team and should help with attendance. You may lose some fans from the western triangle but it would be a lot more fun to go to a downtown game with local restaurants and bars around.
When we stop being fast growing, that’s when the real worrying begins. A major league team in a growing market will only have an upside when it come to attendance.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. Tampa and Miami are both growing and they’ve never done well in MLB attendance. I’m sure there are other examples.
Don’t forget, 2 of the top ten NCAAM teams by attendance reside in the Triangle. Duke would be up there too if their arena held enough people.
My point isn’t that a growing market guarantees attendance. My point is that a growing market doesn’t provide a downside to attendance. Therefore, fast growth only has an upside for potential attendance. This is especially true in the Triangle where more than our fair share of transfers come from NHL markets, or places where the NHL has a stronger popularity.