I’ve heard Carter-Finley isnt big enough for a soccer field. The distance from the football field to the edge of the seats is a lot smaller than the panthers and other dual use stadiums.
Ah gotcha.
Well, they’re talking about using $380 million to build a new stadium. Why not use $10 million to change the dimensions and knock out a few rows of seats?
NC State gets money from stadium rental. MLS gets to come to Raleigh without having to build a full on stadium. Canes can play their outdoor games across the street without having to figuring out parking, etc.
Just a thought.
Guessing NCState wants the luxury box money and personal seat license money that a new stadium can bring. I hadn’t even heard they were angling for a new stadium. I’ll have to read up on this.
No NC State isn’t angling for a new stadium. I was talking about MLS looking for $380 million from the state.
As for NC State, they’ve been upfitting Carter Finley for a long time. They have temporary bleachers on the PNC end of the stadium which is/was supposed to be permanent at some point.
What I was trying to say is, why not use just a fraction of that $380 million that MLS is asking for, and use it to upgrade boxes and the stadium to make it a home for MLS as well as NC State.
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Ahh gotcha. I’m going to go out and start a rumor that State wants a new stadium as a way to save face.
But seriously I’ve been saying for a while I think the way to go is to turn the arena area into an entertainment district and think of a good way to get people in and out and around there.
There could be stuff built around the arena, restaurants/shops if parking is consolidated also there’s the tract of land at Edwards Mill/Reedy Creek that could be developed along with shuttles that run from there to the arena. Also there a few restaurants at Inside Wade and Drive Shack going in on Trinity that would be great for pre game events.
I know it’s not as sexy as downtown venues to some folks but I think it could work and for a lot less than the cost of building a new venue.
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- MLS wants a soccer dedicated stadium (other uses permitted but soccer will be the primary use)
- MLS wants a downtown stadium
- Malik wants a downtown stadium
- The ‘state’ has nothing to do with this except potentially selling/leasing the land currently proposed for the stadium across from Seaboard Station
- Tom Dundon wants an arena downtown
- Tom Dundon knows the deal with PNC arena heavily favors NC State and wants NC State out of the mix
- Steve Malik knows the PNC deal is a bad deal for the Canes and would never agree to a stadium deal where NC State has too much say. Plus he’s a Carolina Grad.
- Most of us who were around when the deal was inked to build PNC knew NC State had too much say, too many ‘alums’ on the Centennial Authority, etc.
- Most of the City Council wants a downtown stadium
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Did you know that the Hurricanes were in most years frequently beating NC State basketball in average attendance per game? It’s only because the Canes have been irrelevant for such a long time that State has surpassed them of late.
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This run into playoff position has happened in the last 2 months, prior to that the team was as low as 2nd from last in the East standings. Attendance drop has been a 10 year process, and it won’t magically flip in 2 months. In Dundon’s first year as owner, attendance was up 17% which is very remarkable. Give it time and a bit of sustained success and maybe we could flirt with 85% average capacity (15,900) again instead of the current average 75% capacity.
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In 2012-13 the Canes were at 94% averaging over 17,500 each home game. That wasn’t all that long ago really.
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Let me reset here.
To be clear, I am just legitimately asking these questions because I follow sports attendance pretty closely and I’ve always wondered about the Canes. Even when they won the Stanley cup they were 21st out of 30 teams in attendance. Then the next year with all the carryover excitement, they finished at 15th…still not in the top half of the NHL.
I wouldn’t float these questions anywhere else but on this forum, because I don’t want people to turn against the Canes or start questioning things. We need them here in Raleigh. But I feel like this forum is extremely informed about these topics, and I think this is where some of these tougher questions can be discussed.
As for the current Canes attendance, I am hoping that some new, smarter marketing and some more connections with the city/community start to happen with Dundon… So far so good though with the possible game at Carter-Finley and the “Bunch of Jerks” shirts.
I’m really just asking the question in a more fiscal sense. Dundon just invested $250 million in AAF (money that could have been used for a new stadium downtown). If he wants to build a downtown stadium with his own money, then I think thats a good move. Please do! But if he is going to ask for county funds to walk away from the PNC and build a downtown stadium, I think asking the tougher questions about the county’s return on investment (based on attendance numbers) are fair.
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Just as a side note… like I said the Canes were at 94% capacity just 7 years ago. In other words, they cannot grow much more than that at the PNC arena and would prohibit them from moving up the ranks in attendance. And their attendance was surpassing that of NC State and they were playing twice as many home games each year. If anything it is the Hurricanes that is pulling in twice as much total attendance each year. The PNC arena would make far less money if the Canes moved to a new downtown arena.
@TedF Agreed. If the Canes could put a contender on the ice year in and year out then I think they could start to fill up the PNC. But I’m still not sold on moving the Canes downtown (using public money) when I don’t’ really think the PNC (or it’s location) is the core reason for their problems. That’s what I was trying to get at.
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can you share the ‘21st/30’ stat? I attended those games in 2006, including Game 7 and I can state for a fact that the arena was at capacity for every game of the playoffs so ‘21st/30’ sounds a bit dubious given the playoffs ran for nearly 1.5 months.
There’s no question attendance as not been good in recent years but the team has struggled to win. People like to go to winners. Watch the panthers attendance when they were out of the playoff picture. Look at the hornets who attract pitiful crowds unless Lebron shows up. This said, at least their stadium and arena are downtown. The fan experience is bolstered when you can ‘make an evening of it’ versus driving to a parking lot, watching the game, then driving out of a parking lot.
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For both State bball and the Canes, put out a better product and attendance will increase. It’s as simple as that.
Look at State’s football team. Save for Notre Dame (which isn’t a full ACC member), NC State has the highest football attendance as a % of capacity in the ACC.
The fans are out there. Win and the rest takes care of itself.
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Some interesting information about PNC arena and it’s impact for Wake County and Raleigh.
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Comparison of attendance and season results… generally about 1.15 points per game (95) is around the minimum threshold to make the playoffs.
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Imagine if it were within walking distance to restaurants/shopping/bars. I’m guessing the impact goes up.
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These numbers are always extremely fudgey. They double count things and work on the assumption that if the money weren’t spent at the arena or arena related events it wouldn’t have been spent at all.
They almost never show their work.
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Can you please better explain?
I would prefer facts if available?
Please and thank you!