Yes it is
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Some interesting things from this video. Says the total development would be a âBillion and a Halfâ.
The area they are considering is South of Red Hat amphitheater, within an area of 40 acres that they control?
Also says theyâre moving forward without MLS commitment.
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Itâs got to be Penmarc. Penmarc is due south of Red Hat, within the opportunity zone, still plausibly in âdowntown,â and an ideal location for a stadium based project.
Thereâs also one family that controls a bunch of land in that area. I got on the Real Estate Maps to look up how much land they control, and itâs about ⌠oh, look at that, itâs almost exactly 40 acres! 
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That penmarc land always stands out when I drive by. How has nothing be put there already?
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Because one family controls it. The patriarch of the family died last year and now his widow (and possibly his children) own the land. If one stubborn old couple owned the land and had no desire to sell it, thatâs why nothing has happened to it. Frankly, itâs a gold mine.
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If my mathâs correct, that family controls literally everything around Penmarc except that RedRoof Inn. And, as you say, itâs nearly 40 acres. I got 39.22 if my calculator app didnât fail me.
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hopefully they can buy that too and bulldoze itâŚ
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That having been said, sometimes holding out for more money because you think the land is only going to continue to increase can be a rational strategy. If that really was the strategy the family was pursuing, it seems like it might have paid off here because youâre right: this is a gold mine. Thatâs probably why it sat there for so long @ADUsSomeday, because, yeah, itâs this gaping dead spot.
@UncleJesse Obviously, no way to know what agreements the Kane-Malik may or may not have with the owners of the Red Roof, but itâs certainly conceivable that they have one, which gets you to âmore thanâ 40 acres. In that case, I wonder if they might try to renovate the hotel into something nicer rather than bulldoze it. (Malik did say that hotels would be part of the development, although that could mean anything.)
If this does come to pass, it would probably activate a lot more development in that area. The City of Raleigh owns another 10 acres adjacent to this land. And, as @wmgadd points out, next to that is the Bain Water Treatment Facility, which has the potential to be re-purposed into a really charming public space. That gets you a connected space running all the way from Saunders to Wilmington, and potentially you could have BRT lines running up and down both of those streets.
Then you start to wonder what becomes of the land to the west of Saunders. Thereâs a lot of sunk money into the industrial plants there, but the economics of doing something different with that land could at some point become irresistible. If so, one of the big winners here could be the Walnut Creek Greenway, which runs right past all of this land. There are parts of the greenway that are less than scenic right now, but that area could really, really change in the very near future.
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The 8 proposals submitted in responses to the room occupancy & prepared food & beverage taxes are available here:
http://www.wakegov.com/roomfoodtax/Pages/201819rfi.aspx
NCFC proposal is included - not sure thereâs new information here, but there is more detail on financial projections.
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The inside of that facility is pretty cool. I hope it can be repurposed in some way.
There was an art installation in there years ago. Hereâs a Flickr group with a collection of photos people took of the project.
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I had no idea this existed, and those photos are fantastic!
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This space is really special. Being able to leverage it in a larger project or district would be ideal. @GucciLittlePig I too did not know about this building.
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Maybe make the waste treatment plant into a swimming pool.
I actually made a point to go by there today. Really short walk from Trophy Brewing on Maywood. Where I am now lol
Very cool area. I actually am falling in love with the southern frontier of downtown
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Thanks Brian ! Great Information !
I always love the frontier where opportunity exists, and change can happen. I started my ventures downtown with the Cotton Mill in pre-renovation in the early 90s. I was told that I was a fool for investing there. As I watch Smokey Hollow rise on the back of Glenwood South (which was also not there at the time), I have to ask whoâs the fool now?
While itâs taken decades for that whole northern edge of DT to blossom, it had to navigate through the dot-com crash and the 2008 financial meltdown/Great Recession. Raleigh was also a much smaller place back then. As the city gets larger, I expect a more rapid transformation of future emerging districts. For example, just look how quickly the east side of DT has been transforming.
A sport stadium district will likely emerge very quickly if it comes to pass.
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So it seems like everyone is on board here with this proposal?
300+ million for a stadium that guarantees a 17 days of major revenue generating activation (iIF we get a franchiseâŚIF MLS decides to expand past the number they said theyâd expand to). When asked what else it might be used for, the answer is womenâs soccer. Nothing against womenâs soccer, but it hasnât historically generated the type of revenue needed to fund a stadium of this size.
So honest question here, if your are the city/country do you approve this just bc of the big names involved, or do you ask for real plans (with pending contracts/guarantees) on how you plan to activate this stadium enough to allow it to be the anchor of a thriving mixed use district.
*If your answer is concerts, please explain how this facility would work with Red Hat or the future Dix Amphitheater, Walnut Creek, PNC, Koka Booth, etc.
To be totally transparent, 100% for MLS coming. Not 100% sold of the idea of a dedicated soccer stadium downtown and 50/50 on public money being used for this as described by Malik.
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There is only 1 spot left for the stated 28 team league that they wanted. Fighting for this last spot are some pretty big metros, so it definitely wonât be easy. Unless Malik has the government entities on board for this new urban stadium, then thereâs no way in hell MLS will consider Raleigh for the last spot. What gives me hope is that they recently announced Nashville and Austin as expansion teams, which have a lot in common with The Triangle. I really hope it happens, as I would buy 2 season tickets the first day they come out. But I also understand the pushback for those against.
To give an idea, I linked a goal.comm article ranking the cities that are left for the last spot.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/mls-expansion-ranking-the-remaining-potential-markets/1r8xo6ok3s4ee1p5ob31e779pf
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MLS has indicated they may expand beyond 28, potentially by another 4 teams to 32. Raleighâs bid is better than charlotte usaâs which is our primary competition. MLS has a big hole in the Southeast and they have a need for at least one additional SE team. The new panthers owner wants to stick a team in his stadium but MLS has already stated their preference is a âdedicated soccer stadiumââŚdowntown. The donât want to be â2nd fiddleâ.
Raleighâs bid is just that. Raleigh is a better soccer market for multiple reasons, including the 3 D1 men & womenâs soccer programs (a couple of which are pretty good if you havenât noticed). Higher per capita income. âsmarter peopleâ (this kills the insecure egomaniacs in sharlotte), which is a factor for MLS âtarget citiesâ. The possibilites for ACC and NCAA tournaments to fill the stadium are obvious. Smaller conference soccer tournaments (SoCon, AAC, etc), Major League Lacrosse, High School Football & Lacrosse, Rugby, Shaw, St. Aug, William Peace (soccer & football) are just some of the possibilities to fill the âdown timeâ of the stadium, not to mention concerts, etc.
This said, Raleigh has 0 chance UNLESS we have a clear, funded plan for a soccer-dedicated (not soccer only) stadium plan, which Malik knows and it is exactly what he is driving towards. The City, County & Region need to make this a priority or Raleighâs bid is DOA. Malik & Kane appear to be giving up on the State being cooperative with the Seaboard Station site (with the right wing GOP in charge, this is not a shocking surprise to me⌠even though Kane is a big GOP supporter; these morons donât want to âhelpâ cities, especially RaleighâŚperiod)
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