I don’t believe Detroit and Baltimore are good examples to bolster your argument 
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Yeah towns and teams are what the NHL cracks down on not private venues. If Ale House wanted to keep doing their thing on Tucker I’m guessing the league isn’t going to fight them. If the Canes want to do a big watch party for away games at the arena or the city wants to do one in City Plaza the league will probably intervene.
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I don’t think Detroit is the best comparison for Raleigh considering their recent struggles.
In my opinion Camden Yards is an example of the positive aspects of locating a stadium on an underutilized industrial property close to downtown.
If you take a 39 acre site that’s mostly undeveloped and/or low intesity warehouse/flex space, and just put one hotel, one 50,000 sf office building, 200 apartments and a stadium on it, the site has had a significant increase in economic development. If it’s John Kane developing it and you get multiple restaurants, some retail, a hotel, 500,000 sf of office, 300 apartments, a condo component and a stadium there’s a drastic increase in economic development. Either way, the hotel tax isn’t there to spur economic development. It’s there for cultural development.
The most important factor for Penmarc’s success or failure will be the design and execution of the development plan. I hope we get to see a plan in the near future, and before the funding is decided upon. The Commission shouldn’t grant any fees without a plan, and then we’ll at least be able to gauge the potential economic development.
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I am also skeptical of claims that stadiums bring buckets of economic development along with them, but from a sheer public enjoyment standpoint, it is a worthwhile investment of tax money for a city to put contribute to have a stadium placed in a location where attendees can patronize downtown bars and restaurants and make a fun night out of it.
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Yeah, I see multiple people making the argument that Detroit and Baltimore are unfair comparisons because you’re not seeing a lot of new development in those cities. But I think that actually makes them pretty good test cases, because you have a much clearer baseline for the amount of development you would expect in the absence of a stadium than you would in a city where stuff is popping up all over place and it’s much tougher to disentangle the influences.
And precisely because Detroit is struggling, it has the only baseball-specific MLB stadium that’s actually in a city’s downtown business district, and Camden Yards is just barely south of Baltimore’s CBD, which is sort of the model that a lot of fans want to see. And by the way, putting on my baseball fan hat, I absolutely love Camden Yards. From the perspective of a baseball fan enjoying game, it couldn’t be better, which is why the Orioles’ EVP’s comment about how “If Camden Yards isn’t a good deal then nothing is a good deal” really is the truth.
@orulz As we’ve kicked around in another thread, it does come down to exactly how much money is being sought. If an MLS stadium cost like $20 to $25 million to build, even I would probably be like, “Eh, probably not the best idea, but, shrug, whatever, fine.” But today’s stadiums are expensive AF, so the opportunity cost is unfortunately huge.
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The Baltimore conclusion is inaccurate. If they are only talking about the immediate streets directly surrounding the stadium, then maybe. But that stadium is a major catalyst for the entire inner harbor, Federal Hill, Fells Point, and Canton rebirth. By the late 80’s, the inner harbor complex was stagnating and Fells Point was the only other safe area to go out, but it was alone and surrounded by bad hoods. One could say that entire swath of Baltimore would have revitalized on it’s own without Camden Yards, but that would be untrue. Camden Yards made it cool to go to downtown again.
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I was thinking the same thing @orulz. Everything doesn’t need to make money or even break even. Sure its nice when big facilities pay for themselves, but quality of life is important too. This certainly applies to stadiums, but also arts centers, museums and civic beautification - fountains or monuments. Yes, subsidizing a stadium does benefit a private company, but gosh - how much do we spend subsidize private businesses in a variety of ways, from roads to sewers to exit ramps! The costs should be weighed against the benefit of community as a whole. That doesn’t mean its always right, but that’s my approach.
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I think a couple major differences between the stadium sites mentioned above and the proposed Raleigh site are that the sole developer is involved in the process from step 1 and is a proven sure thing. The other cities developments were speculative based on the stadium getting off the ground first. Maybe I’m wrong, but they weren’t packaged together. Number 2 is that Raleigh is sorely lacking these kind of developments and North Hills is a pretty good test case on what residents and businesses want. Both locations are outside of downtown, but close enough to make it a major advantage to attract residents and work. It attracts the people that want the live/work/play environment without downtown prices, but also attracts the suburban single family home type person that wants an easy commute to a business core without the pain of being downtown.
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What about AT&T park in SF?
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That’s a great example of how stadiums can be funded with private money.
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I also think it is a great example how a Stadium can generate growth around it too.
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Another nice side effect of a stadium might be that it is a catalyst for additional transit options. If a new hockey arena goes on the Wake GSA block, I imagine there would be serious fast-tracking of light rail and/or BRT.
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What a heart The Canes has to win! Six players hurt & still a win today! Every player stepping up! " Go Canes "!
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Gosh, another OT win. We’ll take it! 
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Canes won 2 to 1 but OT not needed this time!
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Damn right!
20 charcuteriez
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I’m so excited for the team to have a 2-0 lead on the road in the SECOND round of the playoffs but so much more excited for the lasting impact this is going to have on our city and state!
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Proudly wearing one of my two “Bunch of Jerks” tshirts!
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My favorite scenario for future stadia for Raleigh would be:
- Soccer stadium in the Iron District. Warehouse/ edgy vibe more in line with soccer demographic.
- Hockey arena at Smokey Hollow Phase 4 site. 41 hockey games + concerts would compliment Glenwood South and Smokey Hollow retail district. (Similar to Nashville)
- Baseball stadium at Penmarc.
- Just so happens the sites are somewhat connected by various routes of transit proposed over the years.
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