Red Hat Amphitheater and Outdoor Music

According to a WRAL News producer who was in the crowd, Rateliff explained he is from Colorado, where he said the average speed limit is 75 mph.

Does he know what the word “average” means?

I mean, even so, my brother in christ: 84mph is still nearly 10 over and will definitely result in a speeding ticket, at very least. I should know. I got two of them within the past year :confounded:

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Did he confuse it with median? Rookie mistake…

@Jake I’ve had cops tell me that they don’t pull people over for 14 over or less. I’ve gone by cops my whole life doing 14 over with no issue. 9 over doesn’t even get you points with insurance. If you’re not doing 9 over on the highway, you should be in the right lane with flashers on LOL. Meanwhile in Cary everyone drives 30 in a 45. I’m not condoning 84. That’s excessive. I know 80 or over can be arrestable in NC. But it’s a joke to arrest someone for that with the shit I see on the road every day going to work. It’s like having the cops on GloSo targeting someone smoking a joint. Bigger fish are out there. Go fry them!


It’s funny because whenever I visit my parents in Cary I’m annoyed that everyone drives 55 down Cary Parkway and rides my tail.

Feels like everyone does 10 over everywhere, universally. I got passed dangerously over double yellows for doing 5 over downtown.

There’s only one cure, and it’s more cowbell. Or go 10 over. There’s actually public comments published from traffic people and law enforcement where they make speed limits with the intent that people will go 10 over.

Passing you over double yellow lines for 5 over is unreasonable tho. I would only do that if you were travelling the speed limit. :crazy_face:

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I’m also happy how badly I’ve derailed this thread. Sorry Leo!!

Follow Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns on Twitter (or read his book Confessions of a Recovering Engineer) for some detailed breakdowns of how speed limits are arbitrary and give officials an avenue to blame individuals instead of the engineer-transportation complex.

Wide lanes, recovery/clear zones, large signage, banked curves, and clear sightlines are all freeway design features that get misapplied to our city streets and signal to drivers that they can tune-out and drive beyond the posted speed limit. Most of cary’s boulevards are egregious examples of this, especially the southern portion of the Maynard loop.

Once you learn about the calculations used to justify widening a street, or converting a 4 way stop to a signalized intersection, or adding a slip lane, it becomes clear that our street planning/transportation system is unhinged, and functioning in opposition to the interests and benefits of citizens who live in the community.

It’s also culturally engrained in Americans that “one more lane” is always worth the cost, even though these projects never pay for themselves in “saved time” or “economic expansion” which are the justifications used to get the funding.

Red Hat Amp is unfortunately sandwiched between 2 state highways that are victims of all the DOT fallacies.


Also this reply was not to you Gucci, that’s just where I hit reply haha

The couplet of one way streets that border RedHat are the result of a compromise that allowed citizens of Raleigh to kill a N/S freeway proposed through Oakwood, South Park, and other east side neighborhoods. While not perfect, I don’t think that the two streets through downtown are egregiously wide or designed in such a manner to encourage the sort of speeds that the roads of Cary or suburban Raleigh are designed. There are enough quirks, dips, cross streets, hills and valleys to keep the traffic speeds mostly at bay. Are they perfect? No. Could it be worse? Hell yeah.


The intersections, many stoplights, and timing of the stoplights play the big role here. Part of the problem in some of the high speed areas is that the lights can be timed super long which really increases the speed. For example, I always see people flying around 55 on Glenwood. The reason is that there isn’t much to keep the cars from slowing down/stopping as the light cycle is really long and there’s a lot of distance between them.

I know there are a lot of videos and discussions about lane width, but I really don’t think this has anything to with keeping speeds low. Lead Mine Rd has plenty of narrow sections, and cars fly on them. I blame the ~1 mile difference between the traffic lights.

Wade Avenue isn’t a very wide road and cars fly on it. The timing of lights between Faircloth and Dixie Trail play a huge part in this . Once you go past Brooks Avenue, then you don’t hit another light for another mile.

Downtown on McDowell St, you get about 7 lights in about half a mile.

Falls River Avenue is a narrow street and cars will fly by there as well. Granted it’s not 55, but I’ve seen cars running about 40 there.


I posted this in the convention center thread, but it is also relevant here. Leo, if it it is too duplicative, feel free to delete one of these, but I thought it applied to both.

The City has released the RFQ for the convention center expansion and Red Hat relocation. Responses are due November 2, and the city hopes to make a selection in December.

They want the new Red Hat to have a capacity of 7,000.


So what is the emergency? That it might compete with the non-existent Downtown South music venue? I’m more confused than before I read the article. Thanks WRAL…

The use of emergency here means WRAL was late to the party and heard about this at the last minute today. It makes no sense and WRAL shares are basically a joke. Why do you all go to that site?


A more solid summary of the meeting. In short, they need to decide between closing South Street and getting a bigger Amphitheatre or keeping it open and settling with a smaller one. When I say larger/smaller, I mean more or less seats compared to the existing one.

No emergencies here.


Lol I don’t know. Sometimes it’s slow on here and I need to see if there’s any news happening in Raleigh. And then I share it here so I can get the real story from one of you.


It’s truly incredible that they used the word emergency several times and then just plumb forgot to mention any of the emergency. Total journalistic malpractice.


I kind of get the arguments but I’m not positive that a Dix Park amphitheater wouldn’t be better in the long term if the City can get it off the ground quickly and fix the connectivity issues from Dix to Downtown. Of course that’s not going to happen but it’s nice to think.

The emergency here is that they are only giving themselves two terrible options to choose from: closing Lenoir, or closing South.

How about doing what we’ve all suggested: move it a block further south, and close neither?! The “close South” option clearly shows that they are willing to have it across the street from RCC, why not avoid this terrible own goal and just put it across two streets?

Just a few slides later in the same presentation they talk about how three nearby railroad crossings will close: Cabarrus, Hargett, and Jones:

To me it’s beyond ridiculous that they haven’t connected these dots.

If you’re closing the crossings at Cabarrus and Hargett, and then also one of Lenoir/South, that leaves whichever is kept open between Lenoir/South as the only contiguous east/west street across downtown. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


I think we should do whatever necessary to get the largest venue possible even if it means closing roads. We will never have a downtown arena or sports facility. This is all we’ve got. Moving it out of downtown whether to Dix or Downtown South would be another big negative blow to downtown. People on this blog are often lamenting not having a downtown sports arena and coming up with awkward places to put it. We have a place to put Red Hat so I think we just need to get it done.


Was at this show last night - always good times on Air_Khru!
The goal of ADDING 500-1000 seats to Red Hat seems worthwhile but like others, I question whether closing South (and/or Lenoir as proposed with the initial CC expansion discussion / renderings) is really in the best interest of civic connectivity goals for the area (while obviously good / easier in the short term for the CC expansion co$t…).
See below, another non-WRAL perspective on the ‘news’…