Drove from one end of South St to the other after yesterday’s meet. Raleigh’s grid is pitifully small and it seems like it only ever gets smaller.
I insist fitting the amphitheater on the block without disrupting the connectivity of downtown’s neighborhoods is possible.
Alternatively, and I know this won’t happen, elevating the amphitheater to keep a tunnel for South St would give everyone what they want, at a higher cost.
It’s ok, the Raleigh Convention Center can pay for it. They’ll be flush with cash when they book those 3 slightly larger events with the new expansion…
Never heard of her. I must be old.
You are. So am I. I’ve never heard of her and already forgot her name.
But I’m sure she’ll be relieved when her 15 minutes of fame are over.
you had me at bollards
Gotcha, and I’ll probably just not understand. It’s kind of like the downtown stadium debate. A convention center is a deadzone for locals and residents. We’re talking about doubling the convention center footprint within downtown so we can pick up some events that need more than 3.4 acres of convention floorspace. It’s a cost-benefit analysis that I’m not buying.
There are multiple ways to generate money: increase revenue, cut expenses, and a million combinations of the two. The amount of public funds that will be funneled into (already have been funneled into) this CC expansion and relocation of Red Hat are funds that will have to reach an ROI on these larger convention events…at what date? At what losses to our downtown grid? At what expansion to our downtown “deadzones” that are generally weak performing areas outside of large events? And at what opportunity cost? What could we do with the money, i.e. could we build the Dix Gondola with less public funds?
I’m all for big projects for Downtown and the region, but I tend to heir on the side of Strong Towns - designing big expensive things to a finished state with no flexibility for a 2nd lifecycle and adaptability will begin declining the day they open. Do convention centers generate increase tax revenue from adjacent business investment? It’s a similar question for stadiums that receive public funds…
Second time I have seen reference to the “rare” mythical larger event. Much more likely this expansion allows booking two or more events simultaneously.
If we want the new hotels we are seeing planned, the increased pedestrian traffic in the downtown area, and increases in the hospitality tax funding for other fun stuff, this is the way.
I think the convention center stays booked up more than you realize. A lot of these conventions bring people from out of town that will end up spending money at restaurants downtown, book hotels, etc. It’s a good economy driver.
I wouldn’t say it’s a deadzone either for residents. As someone that lives downtown, I’ve gone to a few conventions/events at the convention center over the years.
That said, there’s definitely ways to make it better, and have a bigger impact to the area. For example exterior retail would great or maybe building another hotel on top of the convention center.
I think it’s a dead zone in that there’s nothing to do on the streets immediately adjacent to the convention center and when there isn’t a convention in town, that area is downright deserted. It probably won’t ever happen, but squeezing some food options into the street level of the surrounding buildings facing the convention center would go a long way in boosting the vibe in that area, and make it so the city plaza restaurants don’t get overrun by conference goers.
Charlotte’s convention center even has a few options inside of it, and it would be cool if Raleigh’s CC could attract a few local chefs to set up stands inside.
That’s great, I’m glad it’s booked up. I’m curious how many of those events are utilizing the 500k sf available.
At the end of the day I’m fine with a CC expansion. I just think it deserves to be asked, at what cost?
I agree it’s currently a dead zone. But it does not have to be.
South St. is 1.29 miles including the .31 miles within Boylan Heights as it curves up toward its western terminus.
Lenoir is 2.31 miles including the parts within the SFH neighborhoods on both its west and east ends.
Probably the most important N/S connector that Lenoir has that South doesn’t is Rock Quarry.
Missing from this thought exercise is the possible plans for the NCRR ROW cutting across the property. The trestle over Lenoir is absolutely ancient, and there is a failure to consider what may happen if there is double-tracking on the approach to RUS.
Having that much more rail traffic abutting the venue is going to really screw with any group playing there.
Putting RHA atop the RCC expansion places it above the noise conflicts and gives dual activation of a full block that isn’t sliced by a rail line.
I think the current problem is that downtown is not a quiet zone like it should be. I’ve been to a few cities with train crossings downtown and the trains never blew their horns, the guards just came down.
Yes, big agree they need to activate all ground floor space immediately facing any street. They even mentioned adding retail to the Marriott across from the current CC to make it more people-friendly…. So why the hell wouldn’t they already be planning to do this with any NEW development?? 
The architect even has a whole article recommendation about mixed-use edges for convention centers: Reinventing Urban Convention Center Districts
From the earlier design iteration… there was only the 1 retail area along Cabarrus. Hopefully that gets updated with a new street face along Lenoir.
Summary of this thread:
If the holy art thou Christmas tree grid is disrupted, the world will end and ultimately freeze over from global warming.
I wish Red Hat had a marquee that listed upcoming shows. Could put it above the entrance on the SE corner. Enter DT via McDowell and think it would be a cheap way to add some pizzazz. I also enjoy checking out marquees when i’m visiting other cities so could be a talking point for those walking to the convention center.
It has already been disrupted in the past.
I don’t see the world crumbling if South was closed for that block.
South Street was closed much of this year for Maeve construction. There weren’t many complaints and traffic adjusted
