I am opposed to closing one of the original streets of Raleigh’s grid system from 1792. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. Ask bisected West Street how that reconnection is going. Put an amphitheater over South Street = gone forever. I prefer the southern site for the RHA. People can’t cross a street to enter RHA?
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You are welcome to your opinion, but may I point out that there are lots of things that don’t survive with William Christmas’s original layout for the city? One of Raleigh’s tallest towers straddles the original grid (Truist), the Governor’s Mansion sits on one of the original 4 squares, and the train tracks along DT Raleigh’s northern and western sides weren’t even in the conversation.
While I generally agree that the grid is important, I think that decisions need to be made in balance and having the amphitheater as close to the core as possible is a key part of downtown’s economic success.
Had South St. continue eastward and acted like a true E/W connector in the way that Lenoir does, then I’d probably have a different opinion, but it doesn’t.
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Again, there is zero chance RHA leaves downtown. Zero. It would be one of, if not the, worst decisions of the 21st Century for Raleigh (which is arguably the best run city in the country this century IMO) as highlighted by the fact that nothing resembling a valid argument has surfaced in the entire debate. It would also mean every single city council person who voted to do so would be gone in the next election with such a straight forward, easy-to-digest single issue to run against in opposition (they closed RHA!). There would be signs like that all over the city.
The only thing that could reasonably be considered is another downtown location but that would be a political disaster as well unless you could do it on the same timeline.
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I’m emailing council to this effect.
Don’t go down as the worst council ever. Do whatever you must to ensure RHA is upgraded and remains in DTR, lest ye be excommunicated
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Nope, YOU have it wrong LOL
In the area you’re worried about, I put in various starting and ending points in google maps for pedestrian directions. None of them recommended the South Street route you’re worried about closing for non-car reasons.
Memorial Auditorium is the only destination people from Dix Park are walking to? I mean WHO actually does that walk lol? (All sweaty from the park and a 45 min walk, ready to sit down for a play Memorial or a concert at Meymondi?) LOL literally nobody dude.
Much more likely pedestrians from Dix Park would be walking on these roads to downtown anywhere except “Memorial Auditorium.” Check these google-recommended walks on along roads: (blue dotted path is google recommended route. alternate less recommended in light blue)
Here’s dix park big field to Moore Square
Here’s farmers market to Moore Square
Here’s Dix park big field to Morgan Street Food Hall
Dix Park to the Convention Center
Here’s Rockway to the City Market
The only way your point makes sense is if the starting point and destination is cherry picked to support not closing South Street for ONE BLOCK. I’m really perplexed here.
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You have to remember just how much connectivity west from downtown is on the chopping block right now.
-South St, RHA
-Cabarrus St, West Street tunnel
-Hargett St, High Speed Rail
-Jones St, High Speed Rail
When you plot it all on a map it’s pretty shocking, to me at least. Pending disconnections shown in red, orange for South Street
Right now there are 8 streets that reach at least half a mile west from the “central axis” (defined here as Salisbury Street). Fully half of those are on the chopping block now.
IMO Jones is probably the worst individual street planned for disconnection, but the triple combination of Hargett, Cabarrus, and South actually probably add up to a bigger loss.
Just saying we need to think twice, and all three others are for at-grade railroad crossings which are dangerous, disruptive, and noisy - so South Street may be the one where we have the biggest opportunity to find an alternative to avoid the problem.
Contrast this with the neighborhoods to the east, where there are 12 such connections and none are currently proposed for disconnection.
IMO you have to look at downtown holistically to see the full picture. Can’t just view it as a straight up RHA vs South Street trade off without looking at the context.
Anyway I do see the results of the poll above, and realize that I am outnumbered by about 2 to 1, but I’m having a hard time understanding why most people aren’t even open to a delay to reconsider other downtown locations. Do you think that RHA really is at risk? Or are you so eager for a bigger/better RHA that you just want to get this all going ASAP?
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Googs might need some context on some of these…you certainly won’t see me taking most of those suggestions. For a fun time, tho - mimic that Farmers Market option to Moore Square.
It’s a swashbuckling adventure along Lake Wheeler.
I do often choose South to traverse from this area to Transfer Co, for example, but I could easily do it along Lenoir. (Of course, have done so while Maeve was being constructed) *Cabarrus is being closed at the tracks at some point, so while I currently use that - it is ‘planned’ to change.
I wish / hope Lenoir becomes a robust avenue including the Dix / Chavis Strollway with separated bike / ped, which seems to me to be best workaround for Red Hat at South should it be a done deal but no one has said that is for certain…That part of the ‘plan’ seems worth discussion / need of better understanding before backing ourselves into a corner.
*Full disclosure - I support Red Hat 
.
(Want the audience to face the shimmer wall!! 
) Full stop.
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This is a very helpful visualization. Gotta say though, of those four, If South Street is the one we save, that would be very frustrating. I agree losing Jones St feels particularly egregious.
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The infuriating thing is that 2 of those closures totally could’ve been bridges with better foresight.
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Close it… Easy decision.
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We can solve so many issues if we can update Western/MLKJr to a multi-use urban street. Gridify South Raleigh!
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Jones is partly mitigated by a pedestrian bridge that could be built there. (I actually think a tunnel would be better here but that’s a topic for another day and another thread)
Hargett could potentially be mitigated by the theoretical pedestrian bridge that’s been discussed from time to time, that’s supposed to start from the roof of Union Station, at the end of Martin Street.
Cabarrus and South are somewhat mitigated by the proximity of Lenoir, but it does seem a shame to lose one of the very few east-west connections that already has an underpass under the railroad.
I get that closing South here is not catastrophic - but it seems like a big enough deal that we really should do our homework to be sure there aren’t any better alternatives.
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I actually emailed Jane Harrison a while back (she is my council person) and her email response indicated that she understood the importance of RHA to the downtown community and anticipates it staying downtown for years to come. I wasn’t expecting an email response, but I appreciated that she took the time and effort to provide a thoughtful reply.
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I was just about to reflect the same. I got a response from her over the weekend with a similar message. If she’s not voting for the relocation based on that email response, I’m very confused with her message.
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I am already coming off reading about Nickelpoint Brewery. So I am a bit grumpy right now. The Red Hat is a no brainer and I am going to say it again - close the darn South street if that’s what it takes to keep it DTR. Being so short sighted on these projects is making me really ill. 
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The whole question of closing South St is literally that - a question. It just doesn’t seem like the city even considered the question of if that was required (by evaluating other sites).
Like if it HAS to go there then cool. But there seems to be the same Pros and less Cons with other sites that are still downtown.
Picking the current proposed site just cause it’s the easiest and first option considered would actually be the short sighted approach.
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Yeah I guess I get that. I just see the whole thing turning into a giant pissing contest where the big loser is the music venue itself. All the while as everyone fights for the next few (or more years) over a new location, the venue closes never to be seen (or heard) again. And oh and oh the new Mayor says,it will be ok in another 20 or so years we will have a better music venue at Dix park and all of you will feel better that South Street survived the chopping block.
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What if the fight for the location is 3 months? Does that fly for yall? It literally just doing a due diligence of 2 or 3 concepts. The skys not falling.
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