Residential Infill along New Bern - Edenton

We agree on a lot, but have to disagree with you here. When I first heard this was going back out a year or two ago, I thought the same thing, why don’t they just put an apartment building there, especially since satellite city was a 16-unit apartment complex on this site before it was condemned and demolished.

However, there’s no way the land trust (198+ yrs affordability) was going to be able to make a condo (or even larger apartment complex work) financially, especially on the front end. During the RFI stage, which asked builders to come forward with nearly any idea, only one of the 34 submittals proposed an apartment building, and it was a senior tax credit one, which would have been like extra double subsidy on land that was already being sold for a $1, and it’s arguable that seniors would have been best served by this location. Booker Park North is nearish-by and appears to be doing well at serving that need. It also would have been affordable for 20 years max or something similar to the Gregory Oaks apartments right across the street, which the City saved 15 years ago with a large loan to fix it up with condition to rent to low AMIs.

Also, No way to park this (even w/ reduced minimums for affordable units) as much more. Take for example the condos right up the street on Edention/New Bern, all above on-grade parking underneath and still not near the kind of density you seem to want here. I don’t like parking minimums but in a purely residential area this still makes some sense to not to overly fill the streets with all of the parking that would surely come with a denser development.

Most of the cases you reference where Council approved rezonings despite neighborhood opposition 1) did not include an NCOD that’s been guarded fiercely by community activists in this area (which resulted in the arros project on New Bern to be condos instead of apartments after the (previous) council rejected proposed changes to the NCOD). 2) likely would have drawn out the process for a long(er) period of time and AH units are needed ASAP.

In the end I think the land trust model, amount of amenities they’re going to put on site, ability to move a little quicker, and still use recent changes in the UDO to get nearly double the density that was ‘by-right’ just last year are positives that outweigh getting a handful more units on this site (due to various constraints). This has nothing to do with density, but I think RALT having Lavelle Moton, the NCCU basketball coach that grew up on this site and had the park renamed for him directly across the street, as part of the development and outreach team, along with some other hyper-locals on the team, potentially provides a bridge between new and existing residents both on this site and nearby.

All that said, I will keep pushing for more density out of AH and normal projects, and it probably wouldn’t hurt if others that care about this also (continue to) make their voices heard.

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I appreciated your thorough reply and explanation of your position and the history, but I please ask that you don’t presume what I want to see there or other places without asking me. I made no specific reference to what sort of product that I’d like to see there. In general, I’ve made it more than clear in the past that I think that the city has squandered a lot of land by their decision making, and I’m happy to talk about what I think they should have considered on a case by case basis. This does not mean that I would always jump to an inappropriate contextual solution for them, and certainly not on small plots of land like this assembly. Thanks!

That said, why couldn’t this be townhouses? Wouldn’t that both yield more homes and be more in keeping with what we see in typical new market-rate housing on downtown’s edges? Surely that would yield more units than a collection of duplexes and one single family home. My measuring stick on these sorts of decisions is to ask myself what a private developer would have done with the property, and my guess would be that they’d put in townhouses to maximize their yield and be scaled to the context.

As for the parking, Let me juxtapose this project with another one downtown. Why is okay for the expensive market rate housing going up on the corner of Peace and Boylan to not have even one full space per unit, while this project is providing more than one space per unit? Perhaps I don’t understand the off street parking entitlement here while a project like the one on Peace, with less parking than units & where neighborhood parking is way more scarce and in demand, is celebrated in this community. In general, I personally believe that parking will remain a requirement as long as Raleigh doesn’t have viable alternatives in the public realm. I just bemoan picking and choosing who has entitlement to parking and who doesn’t without a robust public transit solution in place.

Lastly, I firmly believe that home ownership is a important tool to lifting people out of generational poverty, and applaud that this is project is starting a cycle of creating more generation wealth for those who have been largely shut out of it in the past. I just believe that if the city has an opportunity to do that, they should maximize the number of participants.

As for the community activists you reference, can I ask what would separate them from NIMBYs? When I look at the properties surrounding this site, I see nothing but expensive properties on its borders: up to $830,000 per Zestimates on Zillow.

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Ok, but with the limited context in your post that’s certainly where I thought you were aiming for because for a lot of reasons townhomes would not have yielded more units, less in fact. Also, right across the street to the east and south are not expensive homes. For the parking, this is further from city center than the peace st building (not to mention on less transit lines). That said, they could certainley be considered NIMBYs, but that still doesn’t change anything. I get the desire for density, especially for AH, I really do. But I also see people ‘presuming’ they know what would be possible on these sites if we were to wave our wands, so I was hoping to provide more context and details for the armchair developers on this site (sometimes that includes me!) that pass judgement on different projects without having all the information in front of them. Thanks for the dialogue.

And yes, I know you’ve advocated before for better use of these sites. And I’ve explained over and over that tax credit projects just don’t work like that unless you go to the NC Housing Finance Agency and get them to completely change their current scoring system. I was glad to see council pushing RHA to use their Heritage rebuild to go even denser than they are proposing, it will be interesting to see if/how they may be able to thread the funding needle, but at least it won’t be a traditional tax credit project as far as I know.

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I’d like to see how Townhouses wouldn’t have yielded more units. Do you have a visual that explored that option to an end with less units? If so, please point me to it.

I am aware of the low rise apartments across the street, but they don’t border the property. I am speaking specifically to what borders the site. Per Zillow, those properties are worth: 662K, 645K, 833K, 709K, 458K, 742K.

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Don’t have a visual, but if you want to explore youself you can go to iMAPs, measure street frontage of this site, take a normal townhome width, remember you’ll need some access to the back of the site, and do the math. You can’t create multiple rows of them either because the dimensions just don’t work out there either. Only way you could do some townhomes is to have them face lane and idlewild and there’s simply not enough frontage there to get 17+ units. Because you sure as heck can’t do them back-to-back here with it closed in on half the edges (even if it was allowed by the NCOD, which it’s not; or access/frontage wasn’t an issue under the UDO, which it is). I also know because I’ve worked with some of the teams that submitted and each of them confirmed it wouldn’t work. If you really want a better explanation then I’m sure you could call up RALT or their design-build partnet, Haven.

The zillow stuff doesn’t really matter as much because of everything else we’ve discussed, and I even agreed the neighbors were being NIMBY-ish. But for accuracy’s sake, directly across the street it goes, $410K, $365K, $442K, $439K, $316K, etc on zillow (in addition to some that you’ve listed on that block). The point was there were different strata within the same neighborhood which both of our data combined illustrated. Additionally, try telling Octavia Rainey that this isn’t her neighborhood lol [even though technically I believe she lives east of Tarboro].

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Didn’t the city essentially instigate all of this development with the Cooke St / Seawell houses a few years back…?

July 13, 2021

Station Area Planning: New Bern Avenue

Creating transit-friendly neighborhoods for all.
Let us hear from you about neighborhoods along New Bern Avenue – survey closes July 18!

Interested in thinking about how planning around transit can improve walkability, reduce carbon emissions, and address housing affordability? Check out this short video about the New Bern Station Area Planning process!

We’d like to hear about your vision for the New Bern Avenue area and what you think this process should focus on specifically. Please take this quick survey in English or Spanish to give us your thoughts!

For more information, please contact project manager Jason Hardin at Jason.Hardin@raleighnc.gov or 919-996-2657.

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7 posts were merged into an existing topic: Affordable Housing

I came home for lunch today to find a crew removing the wrought iron fence along the New Bern portion of City Cemetery and preparing it for restoration. I spoke to the folks working on it and there will be a barrier put up until they can get the pieces repaired. I’m not sure of the company working on it or the time frame, but they had been involved with the restoration of the fence along East Street. It’s great to see this getting done to a local historic site!

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Fun fact, that wrought iron fencing used to be around the State Capitol Building!

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Has anyone heard what’s going on at this site? Raleigh Assessor’s have it as 908 New Bern and looks like it sold this spring. The site has been cleared and looks ready for development, but missed what is planned for this parcel.

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Not too much info there, but I believe they are all oriented facing a driveway going into the property.

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I have heard that they call those Slot Townhomes in Denver. I have also heard that a key to making them look good is having the end units on the main street look like they are oriented towards the street.

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They will look almost identical to the townhouse projects across New Bern

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Word is they will start around $600K. Overlook had pre-sales in the mid/upper $400s. I’ve heard the builder has told buyers at Overlook that they won’t be completed until March (several month delay) and is offering to return their deposits, which at this point would be silly for the buyers because (a) builder can sell them for much more than the pre-sale amount and (b) buyer will end up having to find something else anyways and there aren’t many downtown condos/tonwnhouses available for sub $500K right now.

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Denver refined their zoning code in 2018 to mitigate new damage to its neighborhoods from the slot townhouses. I think this was a good move. Although the increased density is excellent, the negative tradeoffs (lack of natural light, zero interaction to the public realm, etc.) make this building type unacceptable, imo.

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A developer tried his darnedest to get me to relinquish a contract on a presale. They even tried to buy me off.

saw this image of a master plan “residential test fit” for 600 New Bern Ave from PLANNING — Ci

image

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I had a chance to walk by the two projects going up on New Bern and Edenton and look like they are coming along. The project on the left looks like they have sold out most of the units on Edenton and 15 of the 20 units on the other side of the street are up and undergoing completion.

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Any idea or news on the empty lot at 1221 new bern where it looks like an old kfc? Who owns it and what is the development plan. It’s been empty for months!

Same for ncdmv, any news? I feel like these empty lots are moving too slow considering the market

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