Does the chair in the basement come with it? Is that considered “furnished”?
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Updated video about the Millbrook Road Grade Separation project. Right of way phase starts this year, construction to finish in 2026. Grade separations are proposed at Durant Road (S.R. 2006), Gresham Lake Road (S.R. 2013), Millbrook Road (S.R. 2108), New Hope Church Road (S.R. 2034), and Wolfpack Lane.
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So yesterday, Julie White from NCDOT presented to the GoTriangle Planning & Legislative Committee on current projects that the Rail Division is working on. I watched this meeting over WebEx like the nerd I that am and took some notes as well. Apologies that the screenshots are low-res.
- Julie is chair of the Southeast Corridor Commission. This commission consists of members from six states and the District of Columbia. Their primary task is to develop SEHSR. Julie mentioned that one of the keys to the success of the Northeast Corridor is that their commission was able to secure permanent funding. As such, the Southeast Corridor Commission is currently in pursuit of permanent, designated funding on the federal level.
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I’ve seen a lot of confusion about this, and Julie cleared it up yesterday: NCDOT will only be purchasing the Raleigh-to-Ridgeway portion of the S-Line. She explained that CSX took the southern segment off the table as they’re much more active on that end. However, CSX has expressed that they are still willing to negotiate sharing that portion of line with passenger rail, so NCDOT has been in talks with them about what that could look like. Additionally, CSX has expressed that they are willing to sell the currently inactive SA-Line between Norlina and Littleton(?), which NCDOT views as useful for adding service to Halifax County. My hope would be that Amtrak uses it to route the Silver Star from the A-Line to the S-Line while VA works on rebuilding their segment, as I imagine that would reduce the overall trip time from Raleigh to DC, but we’ll see.
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It looks like both a fourth Piedmont round trip and the new Charlotte Gateway Station are both projected to enter into service sometime in 2024. A fifth Piedmont round trip and an express train with direct service between Raleigh and Charlotte are also being studied. Julie also mentioned that the Carolinian’s strong comparative performance during the pandemic has the attention of the feds; it’s had one of highest riderships of the state-supported routes.
- Speaking of 2024, that’s when Julie is hoping we might see a new fleet for the Piedmont, thanks to federal grants we received within the last year or so. The goal with purchasing a brand new fleet is to reduce maintenance costs and downtime while improving passenger experience. Julie mentioned things like wireless charging at every seat. They’re still looking at options, but an RFP is expected in summer. Would love to see some Siemens Chargers rocking the Piedmont livery, but it’s too early to say who will be manufacturing these units.
- Saved the best for last. NCDOT and NCRR have jointly submitted a grant request for double-tracking the corridor between Cary and Durham. This would include a multitude of upgrades that would speed up service on the corridor and would also be a huge win for potential commuter rail. I would not be surprised if winning this grant reduced the overall projected cost of the commuter rail. I imagine it would also make it much easier to get the feds to strongarm Norfolk Southern into cooperating (I mean, really, what excuse would they have at that point?). Knowing the way things seem to be going in USDOT, I would be very surprised if we did not receive this grant. I feel good about this one, y’all.
That’s all I’ve got. Feel free to cross post to other applicable threads. It’s shaping up to be a good decade for NC rail.
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Wow! This is pretty exciting. Now if we can convince them to let us cap the tracks at the WYE so we can have our greenspace we’ll be really talking.
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Since the NCDOT webpage for the Southeast Corridor always basically said “we got the plans so we’ll do it when we got the cash”, I’m freaking hyped that we’re actually going somewhere on that front!! With this publicity tour Julie’s been willing to do and how transparent she is about all of these updates, I’m getting good vibes from this new Deputy Secretary of ours, too.
I do wonder about one thing, though:
This didn’t seem like a very intuitive route for passenger rail to me, at first, but I guess it makes sense. This would be a great way to get Roanoke Rapids into Raleigh’s sphere of influence and, if it ever becomes useful in the future, a first step towards connecting the Triangle to the ports and naval facilities in Norfolk or Virginia Beach?
Also, when you said “Littleton”, I think you meant Weldon, where there’s a track switch outside of Roanoke Rapids.
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I don’t know if this is the angle they’re going for, but I think the main advantage to bringing the SA online would be to route trains traveling between Raleigh and Richmond away from the A-Line. The A-Line is super congested with freight traffic, and considering how long it takes just to get from Raleigh to Rocky Mount on the Carolinian and Silver Star, I think this would be a smart move. Unless Virginia has some tricks up their sleeve, I don’t imagine they’re going to be quick to get track laid on their portion of the S-Line. This could be a quick way to cut close to an hour off of service to Virginia, which suddenly makes rail super competitive for the DC-bound crowd.
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Wasn’t the whole point of Virginia buying its “half” of the S-line RoW to speed up Raleigh-Richmond-DC rail service, too, though?
I was under the impression that CSX still wanted to run freight service along that corridor as well, which would mean the SEHSR corridor isn’t only for high(er)-speed rail. If that’s true, then you could simply route the Carolinian entirely on the S-line, forget about anything near I-95, and shave off maybe an hour and a half from your travel times. Wouldn’t that make any sort of Amtrak route to Richmond through the SA line redundant?
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Yep! Only difference is that Virginia’s half isn’t tracked anymore; it’s just a clearing with grass. The advantage to that, of course, is they can build the track up to “high-speed” standards (meaning 110mph, so high-speed for the US, I suppose), but the disadvantage is that they have to build from scratch. Meanwhile, NCDOT has mentioned taking an incremental approach to S-Line service while upgrades are taking place. I’d imagine taking advantage of the SA-Line could be one of those incremental upgrades.
I actually think they plan to keep the Carolinian on the A-Line even after Virginia’s segment is up and running. I think they’re envisioning the future of the Carolinian to be a “local service” of sorts, linking as many North Carolina cities and towns as possible to both each other and the NEC. I’m mostly basing that off of this graphic that I’ve seen several variants of (this one is from the 2019 DC2RVA Tier II EIS). Granted, the Carolinian is our service, not Virginia’s, but it seems like we’re working closely with them on this, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some element of truth to this graphic.
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I cannot wait till that gateway station opens in Charlotte in 2024, I’ve taken the train/Megabus to Charlotte before and both stations were in the middle of nowhere…
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The second slide there ends with “Additional stations under development.” Do we know what some of those are or might be?
There’s three stations known to be in development:
• Hillsborough
The town signed an interlocal agreement with GoTriangle and NCDOT last April to begin what Chapelboro describes as a
"seven-year, $8.1 million process of building the station. It commits the town to management of construction, as well as ownership and maintenance of the eventual building, while the other two organizations are funding partners.Since that was a year ago, we can assume the station will be up and running by 2027, provided there weren’t any delays due to COVID or its impacts on rail ridership.
In any case, the Town owns the 20-acre parcel on which it will be located, and according to the article linked they expected to hire a designer for the station this past summer. Most, if not all, of the funding appears to be in place. So this one seems to be moving along.
• Lexington
There is technically already a stop here, but it is only open during the Lexington Barbecue Festival in October. But the City has been trying to get a permanent station here for some time.
In September they received a $24.9m grant from USDOT to build the station (provided a $5m local match) and extend Fifth Ave. under the tracks, which were originally separate projects. But they are working with NCDOT to sign the agreements necessary and make it happen. This recent article from Mass Transit Magazine says they expect to start construction in early 2022 and finish in 2026.
• Harrisburg
Like the other two, they already have the site picked out, and this 2019 article from the Independent Tribune says service is expected to begin in 2021. However . . . that’s the last I could find mention of it, and I haven’t seen any activity on the site any of the recent times I’ve driven past. So this one seems a bit more uncertain?
All of these would be served at least by the Carolinian and Piedmont trains.
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Do you happen to know, or anyone for that matter, why Richmond had 2 train stations and why the
“high speed” rail is going to stop at both? Eliminating one stop would certainly save 20 or more minutes.
I kind of feel the same way about starting at DC Union and then stopping Alexandra when the train’s yet to pick up any speed, and really hasn’t left the rail yards - but I accept that one is never going away. The perennial dilemma, speed vs convenience.
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Once the S-line is up and running, I think the Carolinian needs to be cut back to a captive North Carolina route that connects Rocky Mount to the cities of the Piedmont.
Really it should be one of many Eastern NC branches. Greenville and Morehead City also need direct service from Raleigh. Fayetteville and Wilmington probably need direct service from both Raleigh and Charlotte. The S-line from Raleigh to Hamlet has less population and is less important, but why not?
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The “one neat trick” or “life hack” for going to DC on the train is actually to get off in Alexandria. You can often get where you’re going in DC on the metro faster from there compared with if you get off at Union Station.
The exception is if you need to go somewhere on the red line. If that’s the case then go ahead and ride to Union Station. Otherwise, Alexandria is a faster connection.
As for the two stations in Richmond - I agree. With high platforms we’re talking about saving 5 minutes and not 20, but still. Staples Mill is a good station for DC-VA regional rail but it’s not needed for high speed service south of Richmond.
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A little off topic - but how long would a train ride to New York be once this is all said and done?
So does that mean three additional stops for the Raleigh-Charlotte service? That seems like it would significantly slow down the trip.
IMO rail works when it competes on speed, convenience, cost, and reliability. Adding three stops honestly seems like a step in the wrong direction for making it something professionals in the two largest markets will use.
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I was thinking the same thing. As it is, I wish they just had a stop in Greensboro, WS, and Charlotte. And then one in Asheville.
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What NCDOT needs is:
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To buy new trains with retractable, train-mounted, gap fillers - as found on the Brightline route in Florida
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Build high platforms at every station between Charlotte and Raleigh.
Right now, every station stop on the Piedmont means that the train will spends several minutes (sometimes maybe up to ten, even more if there are a few people in wheelchairs!) Stopped at the platform, as people board slowly, one at a time, dragging their luggage up steep stairs, through just one or two doors. This is ridiculous.
High platforms can cut the platform dwell time down to a consistent 30-60 seconds at every station. This is probably the lowest hanging fruit for speeding up the Piedmont.
NCDOT has high platforms in place in Raleigh, and under construction in Charlotte, which is great for passenger convenience, but does nothing to help speed the trip since it’s the end of the line.
Traditionally, high platforms haven’t been an option because of freight clearance issues, but the Brightline-style gap fillers solve that. Such things have been in use for decades overseas, but Brightline is the first implementation in the US and we could certainly benefit from copying it.
If they do this, they can add more stops on the route without worrying about killing the schedule so much.
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When you’re trying to speed something up, step one should always be “spend less time stopped” and step two should always be “spend less time going slow.” Usually, that’s the low-hanging fruit. Increasing top-end speed tends to be much more expensive, and just cutting stops means removing peoples’ access to the service.
Therefore, the next thing on my agenda for NCDOT rail is to look into getting “BMU” trains: “Bi-mode, Multiple Unit” trains that can run on diesel power and on electric overhead wires where they exist.
We could then string electric wire where it’s easy, which can deliver more power to trains so they can accelerate faster. Gosh it’d be cool if we could do this for the NCRR and S-line commuter routes.
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Great suggestions. When I was in Japan a few years ago I traveled using the shinkansen and it was such a pleasure. They stopped at the station in Tokyo and as you say, you had 30-60 seconds to get on board. It wasn’t a problem bc it was level and there was an entrance to every car. It was kind of like getting on the Metro in DC (except once you were on it was super fast and comfortable).
We would be going like 75 mph by the time I put my bag overhead and you couldn’t even tell the train was moving bc it was so smooth.
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