I assume they’ll paint it at least, and Phase 2 and the little triangular retail at the corner will ultimately shield much of it from view from some angles.
It would have been nice to have that little 2 story retail space wrap all sides of the deck.
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I was thinking last night about the demand to live downtown that’s driving cultural gentrification and displacement in SE downtown. Clearly that’s on the minds of some of the city’s council members who, as many in this community forum perceive, are hostile to development. Well, the case should be made that going to taller in the city core will absorb more of the housing demand and give the city more time to figure out what the right path forward is for managing displacement and gentrification. If I were Kane, I’d figure out how to deliver that message to the city council when he goes for his rezoning of phase 3. “Going taller saves neighborhoods”. I mean, isn’t that what Stef Mendell is concerned about? Can’t that be a win/win?
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My thoughts exactly. If you allow mass rezoning in the downtown core and limit them in neighborhoods of interest, that could be a good trade off
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But how much does a 2 bedroom apartment/condo cost in a new “luxury” (let’s face it, everything new these days has “luxury amenities”) vs the cost of a 2 bedroom house in an existing neighborhood in SE Raleigh. There is no comparison at all IMO.
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I suppose that it all depends on the product that you seek. For some, it’s a house or nothing at all. For others, it doesn’t matter as much since there’s trade-offs based on experiences and proximity. I think there are more of those people than we realize. Smokey Hollow is going to deliver some experiences that you can’t get in most of the SFH neighborhoods that surround dt Raleigh. Also, many people might buy an existing home for less, but then spend a year or more and tons of money renovating it. That’s great for those who want to do that, but it’s not for everyone.
As for the costs of units themselves, the taller a building goes, the more value one gets from the land. Land costs are huge in driving prices of condo developments where it’s only split among a couple dozen units. As a building gets larger on that same piece of land, the cost of that land per unit goes down.
With market forces alone, we will never really have new affordable housing downtown anytime in the near future, not at the rate of growth and popularity now. This includes those less expensive existing homes. If one wants to buy downtown for less money, my suggestion would be to look at resale condos that can run $100-200 less per square foot that the new stuff coming on the market.
Just from my very brief personal experience of looking to move downtown, we ended up buying a bigger townhouse for a quarter of the price in the burbs. It wasn’t that we didn’t want to be downtown (I would LOVE to live downtown!!), but it was simple economics. We couldn’t/can’t afford the downtown residential prices, so we live in the burbs.
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Call me cynical but I believe that for some of these council folk their pearl clutching over gentrification is nothing but a method to have cover for projects they don’t like and to look like they’re doing something. So trying to reason with them by making valid and compelling points could be like tilting at windmills.
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Another factor to consider is that most of the residential that’s been built post-recession (and currently in the pipeline) is rentals. Kane’s group has said multiple times that they’re not going to build condos. If someone wants to own rather than rent, their choices are limited to existing condo/home resales, the townhomes on South St, the Fairweather, or buying a practically brand new renovated house in east Raleigh (of which there is still plenty more potential stock).
I think the demand for houses is still really high. Homes get snatched up in Boylan Heights super fast, even if they need some work.
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True, but there are still resale condos available that are cheaper than the new projects.
Some Comparisons of similar priced existing condos vs. Fairweather:
The Hudson, 1706 ft2 for second floor 2/2 for $465,000 or $273/ft2
Fairweather, 903 ft2 for fourth floor 1/1 for $455,000 or $504/ft2 (YIKES!!!)
Fairweather, 879 ft2 for second floor 1/1 for $377,000 or $429/ft2
Paramount, 1100 ft2 for eighth floor 2/2 for $375,000 or $341/ft2
Some others on the market:
Cotton Mill, 1384 ft2 for second floor 2/2 for $425,000 or $307/ft2
222 Glenwood, 1488 ft2 for fifth floor 2/2 for $429,000 or $288/ft2
510 Glenwood, 1217 ft2 for sixth floor 2/2 for $359,000 or $295/ft2
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Another thing to keep in mind are the condo fees. At current prices, I would jump at buying one of a few condos at list price that are in or surrounding downtown. But a lot have insane condo fees at $5k - $7k per year. It doesn’t make any kind of financial sense to do this, in my opinion.
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As a condo owner, I’d warn any buyer of a new condo to expect fees to escalate post closing. Developers like to entice with unreasonably low fees, but those aren’t sustainable. Also, for buildings with few units, the fees will likely be disproportionately high.
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That’s my argument for historic preservation. Go 60 stories if you want, just leave the 150 year old house alone.
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10 arros is condos too from a deed perspective…they just look like townhouses.
And be sure to understand what those fees include. I’m a financial analyst by trade and frugal by nature. I ran the numbers before I jumped in. I’m not saying they are a bargain, but when you do the analysis it’s not that bad. Mine are right in the range you mention but include water, trash, insurance on the structure, part of your HVAC operating costs (too much to explain here but some bldgs have closed water system), common area maintenance, etc. And I am not going to have to unexpectedly pay for a $10k roof or $7k paint job. I keep the temperature very comfortable, basically a full wall almost all glass, and 1600 square feet and I’m on equal pay plan with Duke for $89 a month (all electric).
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Yeah he should ask for the By-Laws and previous two year’s budgets before buying a condo (two to see if they have been consistent) and previous annual meeting’s minutes. Ask for details about any capital expenses listed. My HOA budget of almost $400,000 covered about 3 pages of line items some of which had extensive contracts that further detailed those things out (pool, property management etc.). It’s also worth having an engineering firm do an asset management analysis on capital replacement items to make sure they’re setting aside enough so a surprise assessment isn’t needed. The monthly dues were about $350 a month and we scrimped a lot, didn’t save much but also didn’t defer anything that was needed to be done.
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All good points @Mark. We had that assessment completed and now have a 20-year capital plan in place. The developer left us in a mess but we have a strong board and property management (and a really good resource doing capital planning 
) and we are in good shape. And most importantly, stay involved. Attend the board meetings.
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Thanks for this. I currently have a condo (townhome style), and only pay $220 per month (everything covered, yard maintence, pool, water, trash, etc.). We are looking to move closer to downtown, however I was trying to make sense of the condo fees long term. I was doing a long term cost analysis, but admittedly I have little knowledge of this. It’s good to hear another opinion from someone who owns a condo and has financial experience.
I think @john and @OakCityDylan will agree with me and my thoughts. I have zero regrets. There are many weekends that I don’t even start my car! Those fees also include your parking. All this said, there are limited common elements that are yours to maintain (balconies for example).
I sold my car. I’ve mowed plenty of lawns in my life and value my time. My wife and I are social and love being able to walk nearly everywhere we care to go. She has a car to go to Cosco. 
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