It seems like they are adopting a similar strategy to what Kane implemented at North Hills, where the inner area was activated for pedestrian use while the outer road (in this case, Lake Wheeler) remained designated solely for vehicles. Upon closer analysis, it’s intriguing because I would have expected the traffic study to classify both Saunders and Lake Wheeler as high traffic roads, which suggests that Rockaway/The Weld might ultimately be separated like North Hills by Six Forks Road until a pedestrian bridge is constructed. The last data has Wheeler Road at 5,200 VPD and Saunders at 2,700 VPD with 7,500 going under Western. (the highest was 10,000 pre COVID)
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I just want to say that these buildings add so much to the view looking from downtown southward. It’s filled in a gap I knew would happen when I moved here 4 years ago. It’s amazing to see all the transformation. Four more years -more goodies to come.
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The project is amazing, the towers are beautiful, and it’s a great step forward for Raleigh’s growth. However, to truly enhance the city, we need a continuous environment of density. Without it, we risk ending up like Atlanta. For example, if you compare a 10km radius around the centers of Atlanta and Berlin, one has a population of just over 500,000, while the other has more than 2.1 million. It would be wonderful to see more infill development in Raleigh, much like what Charlotte has achieved along its South End. This kind of development really makes a place walkable and connected. If you evaluate Kane’s plans for Downtown South, it seems they’re focused on pushing development to the periphery, which creates large gaps between the micro neighborhoods. Even introducing 3-5 story buildings (not the high-rise density this forum tends to favor) would still significantly improve the city’s overall atmosphere and urban feel.
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I totally agree. We must have the infill and I hope we get there. We are making strides and there are more projects on the books. The Downtown South project will either expand the downtown or it will be an island that gives us more sprawl. It’s hard to say what the future holds but I am encouraged by what has happened in the Warehouse District in the past 4 years.
WE NEED way more retail, eating establishments, etc. We also have got to have more connectivity both pedestrian and bike etc. It’s coming I think.
But your point is so well made. Do we we just build for the sake of building hodge podge anywhere everywhere or do we really make downtown what we want and envision it to be. It is the age old question of money, developer power and government will. Where will it all settle out?? I just have my fingers crossed that some of this infill happens DTR before we see the sprawl outward take away that momentum.
And BTW the Rockaway is a great example of a mid-rise building. I would love to see more of this in the right locations.
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“Becoming Atlanta” is often raised as a nightmare scenario but I don’t exactly agree with that. We sit about where Atlanta did in 1975 in terms of population. So we are sort-of on an Atlanta trajectory, only 50 years behind. Plenty of good things have happened in Atlanta, and plenty of bad, over those 50 years.
There are lots of lessons to be learned from Atlanta’s development since 1975 - some negative, some positive, some just informative.
One, endless sprawl means traffic.
Two, rail transit is useful, but is no panacea, especially without land use change to go with it.
Three, densification of industrial and commercial areas can do a lot. There has been an enormous amount of infill in these sorts of places in Atlanta of late, and quite a few increasingly walkable urban neighborhoods have emerged as a result. We are well-situated on this one because, while Atlanta is moving faster on this than we are, we’re starting earlier and have the opportunity to focus on this sooner than they did.
Four, wealthy residential neighborhoods are a tough nut to crack. Well-located, wealthy, low-density neighborhoods will fight change tooth-and-nail, and will dig in further as time goes on. Picking our battles and treading lightly on this one, while focusing on number three above (industrial areas and commercial corridors) can achieve sustained success but will never turn Raleigh into Berlin or Barcelona - but may be a political reality we have to face.
Five, Affordability is likely to continue to be a rallying cry, the more we can do to address it the better
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It definitely starts with strong leadership. There’s a cultural aspect to consider, as it represents a significant shift from people’s usual norms. It requires collaboration, willingness, and compromise. And of course, we can’t overlook the importance of time, money, and resources.
I’ve heard that many landowners want to hold out to be the last piece of land developed in an up-and-coming neighborhood, hoping to get the highest price. That’s understandable, but not everyone can hold out. For the neighborhood to truly develop, a significant portion of landowners need to sell; otherwise, it risks becoming an isolated island amidst the transformation. Just recently a small lot next to the Lincoln Theater was listed (albeit a very unreasonable price).
To be honest, the city has done a great job catalyzing growth, and developers are certainly exploring every opportunity. However, there seems to be an issue with some some landowners keep sites vacant, as seen in the listing above. It’s also important to remember that growth takes time—cities don’t evolve overnight. They undergo a challenging and often unpredictable journey of expansion.
That said, we sometimes miss the mark with incremental development. There’s often a leap from 2-5 story structures to zoning and building 20-40 story towers, which can be jarring for an area. The rapid shift from low to high density can be overwhelming, especially if the area and infrastructure aren’t prepared for such a quick transformation. There’s definitely a fine line between placemaking and overdevelopment, and balancing both is key to ensuring sustainable, thoughtful growth.
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You actually are starting to get some bonus city view! Congrats!
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I’m all for it. The solution to lack of affordable housing is more housing. Lots of it.
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I’m pretty sure the reason this project has continued to move forward is that it’s in an opportunity zone, and their investors are part of an OZ fund. There are very stringent laws around when these funds have to be invested in order to be eligible for the tax benefits.
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You are singing my song! I want to see more and more and more walkable neighborhood development. Interestingly enough, and after playing with this website, Charlotte’s Southend and Uptown development isn’t yielding the overall density that one might expect. When I play around with the tool, Raleigh’s density (which isn’t anything to write home about) is higher than Charlotte’s. It’s pretty surprising.
While I’m supportive of dense development around the city/county/metro, I’m particularly keen on the density that will connect one dense development to the next. When I think of The Weld/Rockaway and its possibilities, I am most excited about how it can connect to SW downtown/South St., and then how that connects to the Warehouse District, and so on.
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Ah, yes, I forgot this project is in an Opportunity Zone, which explains its large scale and likely shorter hold period of around 10 years. If you’re going to deploy capital for a tax-free gain, you might as well really maximize the potential profit!
The key factor with Opportunity Zones is the definition of “substantial improvement.” For example, if you had a $700,000 property, you’d only need to invest an additional $700,000 in improvements within 30 months. This rule works incredible well for phased developments in distressed areas because they can deliver a substantial amount of the project at the tail end instead having to operate the asset for many years.
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Also if you drive that section, there is no room for retail patio space without pushing into the building, and the grade is sharply decreasing from South to North, so the outdoor spaces would be segmented with retaining walls.
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Well, the city isn’t going to build more streets and every attempt at a public transportation project has been a complete joke (including BRT). We don’t get real infrastructure and city building. We get highway widenings, patchwork sidewalks, and paint stripes. If these areas aren’t ready for high density development then I guess we just keep sprawling.
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Hadn’t seen this drone video posted here. It’s cool video flying at sunset up from South Raleigh, over Western, down over the new Rockway apartments along Dix, between the two new large Weld highrises on Lake Wheeler, and then over Dix Park playground. I’ll post this on the Rockway/Dix topics too where someone often posts drone videos. This one is from someone on the dumpster fire that is raleigh sub reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/comments/1i7rejt/south_raleigh_around_dix_park_tonight
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