West Street is going to go way over $10m if engineering is north of $5m. When NCDOT looked at this project for incorporation in the STIP they estimated it at $70 million, but there was some talk that they were sandbagging it to make it look bad. The real cost probably lies somewhere between.
They might be proceeding with design work now in spite of the lack of a full funding commitment so that whatever Kane builds on the south side can match up with the overall plan for the street connection.
If I can ask an ignorant question (as someone who doesnât work in construction/civil engineering)⌠why would the construction of a geographically-small project like the West St. extension cost much more than $5M to build?
I found this cost-estimation guide from the US Dept. of Agriculture for building roads in Montana/Idaho, and I thought this might be a good place to see the order of magnitude for each step in the construction process. âŚif I could understand it and find the right places to pull out numbers, anyways.
But even if the majority of these numbers were realistic and reflects best practices, this still rubs me the wrong way. Right-of-way acquisition etc. wonât be an issue, and Iâd imagine you could simply hand-dig your way under the rail tracks (and incrementally add support structures along the way) by doubling whatever is the construction cost for the road itself. If thatâs the case, even if you assume the average cost of urban road construction ($10M/mi), why would you expect this 0.2mi-ish projectâs bills to explode so much?
This project in Morrisville cost $18.5 m and it seems slightly less involved than what the West St extension would be.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/article10028006.html
This project requires building what looks like 2 railway bridges. Very expensive bridges as they have to take many times the weight and pounding of highway bridges. Also the rail lines have to be keep open while bridges are being built. Keeping them open will require complicated temp bypass lines that have to be right next to current lines. As you know trains do not make 90deg turns. or even 10deg. Wich means the bypass line will have to start 1000âs of feet on either side of work zone. They also do not tolerate hills or bumps. My wild guess is as much will be spent on keeping rail open as building the actual underpasses for west st.
Then there are lotâs of utilities that need to be relocated as well.
Itâs almost IMO criminal that this was not done while work was being done on rails for RUS station.
Yes, not a PE and I donât work in the industry, but my understanding is thay (1) dealing with utilities, and (2) phasing construction to minimize disruption are the elements that blow up budgets and schedules. Anything in DTR is bound to encounter a tangled web of poorly documented century-plus old utilities. Phasing this while maintaining train service to Raleigh is going to be a real mess given that it goes under the platform.
I completely agree, though - removing this from the scope of work for Union Station was borderline unforgivable.
Was there ever a formal, documented reason why this project got totally separated from the RUS upgrades? It sounds like budget reduction to appease the state DoT (read: it reeks of politics), but I donât want to jump to any conclusions.
It really is inexcusable that this wasnât done as part of the RUS project that included digging down to a new West St. entrance anyway!
As for boring under the tracks, itâs not the most complicated thing in the world. After all, tunnels have been bored under water, through mountains, etc., and for much greater distances. Iâd think that in a perfect world, tracks could temporarily be diverted so that the work could be easier, faster, and cheaper, but I donât know where those temp tracks would go.
It had to do with the commingling of Federal funds via the TIGR grants the two couldnât be done in conjunction for some reason. @Deb has explained it several times before in this thread( or maybe the Cabarrus thread) I believe.
My memory⌠it wasnât included from the start. Always a separate project. So never a reduction in the scope for RUS - wouldâve been an addition if got included and wouldâve required coordination across two separate projects.
Yep. The city was going to apply for a TIGER grant and had already secured bond funding for the West St extension that would be used in conjunction with the federal funds. However, the new administration significantly changed the requirements of the TIGER program (now called BUILD).
One of the changes that directly impacted the West St extension is that BUILD funds cannot be used in conjunction with bond funding, so this hamstrung the city even if BUILD funds were awarded. In addition, 50% of BUILD grants are targeted to rural projects, thus narrowing the opportunity for projects like this one to receive funding.
This was the explanation the cityâs transportation planning manager gave when asked.
Awarding the design contract for this project will be discussed at this afternoonâs council meeting. From the agenda:
âThe planned budget for this project is $10,000,000, which is allocated to cover the cost of design and the Cityâs contribution to obtaining supplemental grant funding in partnership with the North Carolina Department of Transportation through the municipal agreement, which will come before you for consideration on a future meeting agenda.â
Not exactly sure what is meant by âthe Cityâs contribution to obtaining supplemental grant funding. . .â but I think the $10 million figure is only for design/engineering.
Iâd be surprised if the design was over 50% of the total project cost . Is that just the Cityâs contribution with the Feds kicking in a substantial part for construction?
Haha just went by there around the same time. Glad to see this moving forward. Hopefully once everyone gets back to normality this will be delicious and beautiful.
One two thee four five
Five stars 
âThe Art Coâ and âTheory & Craftâ have me intrigued - are those all part of the development company that is working on 5 Star, or are those going to be retailers in this complex?
Seems to be a design agency in RaleighâŚmoving there or just helping with the design, Iâd guess.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Theory+%26+Craft&oq=Theory+%26+Craft&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Nice shot. I see lots of opportunity in this pic!
