I couldn’t agree more.
My modular bar idea would be great here. Also, a block from our new place!
With the discussion of the Creamery and this corridor, I give you, my plan for rails and trails north of downtown Raleigh.
For Trains:
- All trains are moved onto a new alignment through the north side of downtown. (Yellow)
- Most likely, this would involve a mile-long viaduct, stretching from roughly Jones Street, to north of the Capital/Wade interchange. A long viaduct is better than putting it on an embankment because:
- It allows for retail space to go underneath it
- It might allow for some buildings under the viaduct to be preserved even, though this is far from certain
- It allows for new connections under the tracks at places like Jones, Lane, or Cleveland Street.
- Curve radius are indended to allow 100+mph operations all the way into downtown, with the exception of the very last curve at Jones Street. This would shave several minutes off of the run time from the old “NC5” alternative.
- Part of the CSX and NCDOT yards would be reconfigured and kept, accessed by the 45mph flyover originally planned by NCDOT for the “NC5” alternative. (Orange)
- Some new yard space could also be provided there, too (blue)
For the trails:
- The old Norfolk Southern trestles along West Street are kept and turned into a rail trail, with a 20’ wide corridor (meaning the trail itself could probably be about 15-16’ wide.) (Green)
- This corridor could extend further up the corridor, through Glenwood Yard, and as far north as Atlantic Avenue (purple) - and could feasibly connect with Crabtree Valley etc via the Crabtree Creek trail
- This would be complementary to the Pigeon House Branch greenway and Devereaux Meadows Park
- I think that there is even a spare 20’ or so of width under the Hillsborough Street Bridge (which is the main chokepoint in the corridor) so that this rail trail could even extend clear through downtown
- A connection through downtown could connect to another rail-trail idea I’ve talked about before (The Norfolk-Southern line to Dix and beyond)
- The CSX line is also proposed for abandonment south of the Wade/Capital interchange. (Red) Uses for this one are wide open and could include:
- expanding the downtown street grid, building out a street network in the vicinity of the proposed Zimmer tower
- Another rail-trail
- Possible route for light rail to enter downtown?? (Who knows.)
15 Likes
I feel that combining this with the rail consolidation south of downtown that I have proposed on here previously, including the Norfolk-Southern rail-trail through Boylan Heights, Dix, and beyond – and then toss in other things already in the works like Dix Park, Downtown South, Devereaux Meadows, Pigeon House Branch, the Capital Boulevard Corridor Study, BRT, and commuter rail to Garner and Wake Forest, then this could come together to create a vision for Raleigh comparable to what Ryan Gravel articulated for Atlanta with his original Beltline proposals from 1999 to 2004.
It’s plain to see how transformational the Beltline vision has been for Atlanta. I would love to see something similar in Raleigh that can stitch together all of these many parts into a cohesive whole that links the entire city together and really elevates it to the next level.
8 Likes
Awesome - I love it. Can’t come soon enough. The more non-car connections for people living outside the beltline to ITB attractions the better.
I’ve biked on the Beltline in Atlanta and it was a very cool experience. There’s great diversity both in the people using it and in the pieces of reclaimed infrastructure that make up the whole. It was striking to see new retail and residential development going in right alongside a former railroad bed.
Ryan Gravel’s book is available at the NCSU Design Library for those who have access. And, you know, after it re-opens.
8 Likes
So many 20’ non-vehicular corridors through downtown would be transformative. How many of these are real and how many would have to be negotiated with the railroads? I love the ideas.
2 Likes
All of this would have to be negotiated with RRs. Need a champion behind it with some political muscle to make it happen.
There is a distinct tailwind, though.
- Norfolk Southern already leased off operation of their line north of downtown and off towards Knightdale, Zebulon, and Wilson. The short line they leased it to operates mostly out of Wilson. They use part of the main line between Wendell and Zebulon for storing mothballed coal hoppers for Pete’s sake. This is not a critical piece of their operations and they have been signaling as such since before Hunter Harrison made it cool.
- As recently as last year, they even tried ceasing all operations at Glenwood Yard, but that proved infeasible because (IIRC) accessing the line through Dix was awkward without it. Even so, operations at Glenwood Yard are well below what they were even a few years ago. That southern bypass route I posted about previously provides the final solution to this dilemma.
- CSX has long been talking about selling the S-line. I don’t think they are interested in ceasing operations entirely, but they have definitely signalled that they are open to a change from the status quo
- Virginia has recently purchased their portion of the S-line, and put several billion dollars toward rail improvements within their borders. This makes the Southeast High Speed Rail line through Raleigh seem more real and likely than it ever has before.
- There has been a lot of noise in the past year or so about NC acquiring our portion of the S line.
- North Raleigh and Wake Forest felt left out by the Wake Transit Plan and they have continued to push for commuter rail on the S-line.
- The NS rail line goes right through some of Kane’s Downtown South properties. Converting it to a trail would turn a liability into an asset and provide his development a direct ped/bike connection to both Dix and Downtown.
6 Likes
Corridors like this running through an already developed urban core as so rare, it would be terrible to not have these ideas considered.
As I see it, these great concepts do not fall cleanly into any single group’s responsibilities. Does anyone want to brainstorm who should hear a proposal along these lines. Select one or more City Council members? Wake Up Wake County? Raleigh BPAC? Someone from CAMPO? Not NCDOT. Raleigh Director of Transportation Michael Moore? Downtown Citizens Activation Committee? Are there people who understand all these railroad relationships who might care about Bike/Ped infrastructure in Raleigh?
6 Likes
Probably has to be on the radar of at least one city councilor. City staff would have to do the planning.
I don’t think getting NS and CSX to sign on to sharing this alignment with HSR will be that difficult. From there, converting the existing rail beds, bridges, and yards to trails, roads, parks, development- whatever- is academic. The RRs will want to be paid for their land, though, and for that the city would have to dig a bit.
The idea of squeezing the trail in through the bottleneck from Jones to Morgan (most critically, under the Hillsborough Street bridge) is kind of the linchpin that holds the plan together, but also the most challenging. So, aside from uniting people behind the vision, coming up with, basically, a 50 or 100 year horizon plan for the railroad corridor from the wye area up through Jones Street, with buy-in from all relevant stakeholders, is probably a good first step.
To do this, you’d have to get somebody trusted by railroaders to buy in. NCDOT Rail, NCRR, or maybe a manager from either of the freight RRs would be good. Railroads generally have way more land than they will actually ever need, and even the Hillsborough Street bridge is no exception. It’s just a matter of convincing them that they don’t need to hold on to that 20 foot strip forever “just in case”.
9 Likes
Love the narrative! 
Quick request: would you mind going back into this message and edit it to reference each to your map’s color coding?
If you click the icon in the top left corner of the embedded map, a legend with the color coding should slide out.
1 Like
oh nice!!! 
5 Likes
I’m still digging @JimMcK’s perfect timing of the shot of the train in front of The Dillon.
A zoom:
17 Likes
Five Star can’t be too bright…tougher to hide your kitties…
4 Likes
This is more common than what one might expect. Oftentimes these types of situations are hidden behind spandrel glass or simply a set of always closed blinds or shades. This detail might only come down from the structure above and cover the clerestory part of the storefront. In that case, that glass might be used for some branding graphics. Interestingly, that storefront has 5 sections between the brick pilasters 
It’s easy to imagine a star in each clerestory section.
1 Like
You’d think they could have arranged the walls out differently to avoid such a situation. Certainly doesn’t seem ideal .
A design firm with 50 year old roots to NC State (Design Workshop) is jumping into the same building as Five Star.
Global firm with NC State roots lands new office in downtown Raleigh
They were in temp space in The Dillon so they’re vacating that to move here.
11 Likes
Yikes, the article calls them an architecture firm. They do landscape architecture, urban design, and planning, but no architecture… kind of a basic thing to mess up. Exciting to get more urban design firms in the area!
8 Likes