I’ll offer some balance. I don’t really care about seaboard station other than Logan’s, Tyler’s, and 18 Seaboard. Now it’s just Logan’s left, which is staying unaltered. I am happy for pretty much anything they do to change up the place. Maybe I’ll actually start going there again. The renderings and plans all look fine to me. I hope they don’t get all canceled with a recession.
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I can’t wait for the translucent trees!
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I’m concerned about J. Betski’s, one of my favorite restaurants, and consistently one of the best in the city for over a decade. It’s an outstanding, unique local place that’s weathered good times and bad.
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I go to Peace China pretty regularly, and Ace.
Lowe’s and HD seem so far out and those are probably my most regular shopping destinations.
I’d second on J Betski’s. I’m not really a cheerleader for the restaurants around downtown, as it seems I have pretty differing views on the quality than most on here. J Betski’s is actually one of the very few that we frequent.
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The snide comments were just about the rendering; not meant to be a criticism of the design. I think it looks fine, and I’m excited about Seaboard’s redevelopment!
That said, one of my pet peeves is when people say “it’s much better than what’s there currently.” True, but almost anything would be. If this is our response to everything, we’ll end up with a bland, generic city, and I think Raleigh’s better than that. We have a limited number of large prime properties for development, and we’re going to be living with the impact of every development in this forum for decades to come. I think it’s about having a healthy balance between being critical of development that can really be doing better, and being realistic about what the local market dictates for building/design quality.
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We are already stating to see many of these new-urban development go through complete overhauls, and this one will likely see the same sort of attention paid to it 25 years after it opens. The reality is that, in today’s World, these places are designed for today’s general taste in balance with maximized profits.
do you have any examples?
Well, just look at Crabtree and North Hills to start. Both have undergone transformations over the years, with North Hills going through a tremendous evolution. In addition, I’d add Cameron Village (3 that I can remember), Waverly Place in Cary, etc. I mentioned in another topic here about CocoWalk in Coconut Grove (Miami) as going through a complete overhaul right now. Raleigh’s fairly late to the game for these types of giant urban mixed use development, but I don’t expect any of them to remain static and un-altered over the years.
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Oh ok. Sorry, thought you were referring to this type of urban development as needing overhaul in 25 years and couldn’t think of any examples of that. Like 510 Glenwood is almost 20 years old. It doesn’t need a complete overhaul. Not really sure what those 1950s-60s-70s malls have to do with this Seaboard development?
Actually, 510 Glenwood did just have a facelift across its entire road frontage at the lower levels. BofA on Fayetteville St. also had one a couple of years ago as well. I still say that we should expect that most of our substantial mixed use projects will be on a 25 years (or so) cycle for refresh. Some might be on even shorter cycles.
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Well I’ll just have to be the cause of one of your pet peeves because one of mine is when someone states that something is ugly or boring and others pile on.
Oh ok, so just the retail space turnover. Gotcha.
Not just retail space turnover. The physical exterior of both 510 and BofA were both recently renovated/refreshed.
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Why do so many developers (except my hero
John Kane) embellish all their dates? It can’t be a finance thing because banks work mostly facts and experience.
Probably just because it’s better to get the press release out there and start generating buzz with a somewhat excitable timeline to help breed activity. If someone announced a new project and said “construction starting in 4 years” nobody would care lol
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From the CAC meeting notes, if helpful:
"Renderings are not fully developed but are more to establish a flavor for the development. Phase 1 will be blocks A and B. Block A is current site of Sunflowers. 148 room 7 story hotel with a rooftop bar and ground level pool that will be shared with rental apartments with retail on ground level. Parking will be tucked underneath as the lot slopes down. Intimacy, cafe space, Block B (currently 18 Seaboard and Oak n Dagger) will be retail ground level with apartments above and a handful of townhomes on Halifax and shops along Seaboard. Current alley will be open to retail and open for events.
Block C (Night Kitchen) is still in flux. Harris Teeter is off the table. Bad Daddy’s
and Logans are not part of this development but their input is being courted.
Active, pedestrian friendly, food and beverage/dry goods. Currently building where O2
and Ace is will stand. Other buildings (Blocks A, B, C) will be demolished. All plans are
within current zoning. Hoffman is talking to city regarding the Person St. streetscape to
maintain walkability.
Timeframe: Block A is starting summer 2020 with Block B a few months after. Block C
will start 3-5 years from now. Hoffman-Dev is looking for variety, mix of retailers/
restaurants to include upscale restaurant anchors, fitness, home goods/dry goods. A
vibrant street scape is the goal, accessible and approachable.
Current retail/restaurants will have the opportunity to move into new space.
Studios in 500 sf range up to larger 2 bdrm units for rental apartments. Some units will
be geared towards Peace students, although no student housing is planned for for
blocks A or B. Townhome style units will face Halifax with front stoops directly on
sidewalk. All units in Block A and B will be rentals."
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First of all, thanks for the summary.
It will be interesting to see how this development gets cobbled together among the other remaining properties that surround it. I sure hope they are successful at increasing the overall pedestrian experience. It would seem to me that, with the remaining properties, there’s really not going to be a reduced “role” for cars in the greater Seaboard area since those existing businesses are highly car oriented. For me, that means that our best hope is that Seaboard can at least improve how those without cars can successfully navigate it.
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