I wonder if the Budleigh East redvelopment is influencing the HB reaction. The sight of a high rise of shorts, and the density that is coming, might be scaring the pants off people. Its close enough that sime fear their block could be next. Just a thought and a point I’d not seen made.
This could be a possibility, however the Budleigh East redevelopment is a much larger development that is happening than what would be allowed via the Missing Middle Text Change. I think the townhomes included might be allowed, however the big apartments buildings would still require a different zoning.
I ride in the neighborhood quite a bit so I see a lot of the new builds happening. This is the one thing that frustrates me is the arguments against denser development (affordability, lack of trees, etc) happen with all of these new homes. I rarely hear complaints about the big houses (outside of those who want denser development). I’ve seen a lot of trees get town down for some of these houses. 4301 Pamlico Dr and 4135 Rockingham St both removed a ton of trees. Why is there no outcry or lawsuit about this? If there were limits to these big houses replacing the older houses and removing the trees, then I’d be a little more understanding of opponents of the Missing Middle Text Change.
I watched the video where they talked about the engagement. I do like that they did recognize this was not a full representation of the city. In response to the city asking for people to attend to voice their opinions, I think this really needs to be looked at as a failure of the outreach. I’m not blaming the outreach outright because I think they really did what they could do and worked hard. I don’t want to say they did a bad job because I don’t think they did, but there needs to be a different way to get a full representation.
I attended the budget meeting which was separate. That was a virtual meeting. Unless you get people who are really into development, transportation, etc, there really isn’t motivation to attend; especially one in person. So I do agree that people need to attend and should, but I think it’s going to be very hard to get pro-missing middle people to attend.
I think the next thing I’m looking to see is if anything happens with the lawsuit. I don’t think any changes should happen with the missing middle until we see what the lawsuit brings. I think as time moves on, people will let it go.
If they have more meetings about this, then I might consider going to a meeting. I’ve already written to city council, BPAC, Raleigh Transit Authority, and Greenway Committee on other items.
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To give further context on the importance of developing housing, every new residential unit (condo, townhouse, etc.) will ultimately reduce the cost of rent in similar housing types. For example, the Haye Barton development would allow the older homes to become even more affordable, for some, overtime given the increased amount of similar (SFH) housing now available.
Based on studies I’ve read, the development will only affect properties within 500 feet of the property and only negatively affect differing housing types (apartments, and other multi-family units). Essentially, the demand is what drives up rent costs and the creation of housing will help to slow the rise in said costs overtime, unless there are differing housing types with a 500ft radius.
For developments with retail included, rent increases will be seen for all housing types, similar and different. This is because the new development will bring newer amenities and attractions to the area (500ft). Ultimately, similar units will not be affected as much as housing units different from the new development.
Example:
300 new condos, with bottom floor retail = $ increase for existing condos, and $$ for existing rental units
($ is a minor difference and $$ is a noticeable difference)
And don’t get me started on the ‘character of the neighborhood’ argument. I live in this neighborhood and there are many more like it ( though I think this one is the most egregious.). So many affordable 60’s ranch houses with mature trees and yards torn down, replaced by McMansions with a golf course lawn and two tiny token trees that will take decades to mature.
On streets like Lambeth, houses have been falling like dominos. Tall trees, beautiful gardens with azaleas and dogwoods get razed, and are replaced with one white McMansion after another, with perfect lawns. Talk about ‘character of the neighborhood’ changing. That is way more impactful to me than any changes that missing middle would bring.
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Same in “historic hi-mount” where “farmhouses” replace brick ranches.
Increase in density? 0
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We are California in the 80s. The lawsuit from Hayes Barton against the city of Raleigh is exactly the kind of action that will keep us on track toward present-day California problems. I don’t believe they realize that is what they’re doing. They’re simply acting out of self-interest and labeling the problem under the guise of environmentalism and due process.
Please recognize that there is a stark difference between differing opinions on what is good for a citizenry, and defending affluent “victims” that have the resources to fight against a policy that is simply undoing the regulations that have propped up their generational wealth and property values for generations.
Do you think the neighbors in southeast Raleigh would have benefitted from hiring one of the best land use attorneys to fight gentrification when their landlord decided not to renew their lease so that they could flip it to a modernist spec builder?
The median house value in Chapel Hill is somewhere between 30 and 40% higher than Raleigh. Did you know that the average Chapel Hill homeowner made $37 an hour last year doing absolutely nothing?
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First of all it was NOT an argument (you are the only one arguing). It was a statement on how I felt about it and I am sure that the vast majority of the people in my similar situation would feel the same way. Raleigh can do the whole city with MM if they want as I said earlier I don’t live in Raleigh (only work downtown) so my opinions was based on where I lived in Cary). Secondly, I conceded that increasing density is necessary (maybe you missed that part while seething in anger over the rest of my comments). It’s clearly not all 100% positive and all good. I see far more positive benefits along corridors of mass transit so that this increased density can occur without the addition of many more vehicles on neighborhood roads. I imagine that sometime in the near future that Cary will be coming to grips with the same issues as Raleigh is dealing with now.
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An argument doesn’t mean someone is arguing. It is a position that you are taking. A statement on how you feel is an argument.
Not seething in anger. Not sure where you picked up on that. Just calling to attention incorrect opinions that can be disputed by facts. Politicians moving forward regardless of the capital of HB is proof that they’re not being influenced by money (which was your “argument”) and assuming increased density leads to higher aggregate costs (another "argument) are factually wrong.
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I would suggest to the good people of Hayes Barton and the rest of ITB Raleigh that if you are opposed to change and missing middle housing that take your stagnant entitled lifestyle to Cary and fight about pedestrians, shadows, and increased density there. It just doesn’t work to be opposed to change in one of the fastest growing/most transient cities in the country. Thats my point of view, I hope you can understand.
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Please move this to direct message. Let’s get back to the topic.
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I’d say that these houses are being replaced with mansions, not McMansions (which suggests large cheaply built tract homes). At least McMansions are quasi-affordable to a larger market. The homes being erected are for the 1% of the 1%.
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People may read this and think I’m a socialist or SJW. On the contrary. I believe in free markets with smart regulation. Building codes that ensure safe habitable residential buildings are smart regulations. SFH exclusive zoning in a rapidly growing city is not smart regulation.
Let the real estate market react to market forces, not arbitrary lines.
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I know I’m beating a dead horse, but I was walking through HB / Five Points today and laughing at the idea that 17 (likely) million dollar townhomes are going to change the area at all. The Fairview condos / townhomes are extremely nice and tasteful right by Five Points.
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They’ll be $2MM+ townhomes…and, the neighborhood issue is really the 17 additional entrants to the club under ‘new rules’ rather than the offered character issues / number of new car trips through the area if we’re being honest. 
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Was just made aware of this interesting event that I sort of hate I can’t make next week. I’m hoping some readers might be interested as well.
https://raleighnc.gov/events/small-scale-homebuilders-workshop
Small-Scale Homebuilders Workshop
Are you a small-scale or minority homebuilder in Raleigh? Join us for the Small-Scale Homebuilders Workshop. The half-day workshop is designed for participants to learn the City’s development regulations and the “nuts and bolts” of constructing missing middle housing. The goal of the workshop is to encourage and support builders who seek to provide more housing options for families in Raleigh. Come to hear from a panel of industry leaders, participate in roundtable discussions with other attendees, and engage with city staff.
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As I’ve mentioned a few times already, I am particularly anxious (in a good way) for more density being built in the immediately walkshed of the 5 points intersection where a density of mixed uses will be the most impactful.
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this is tough for me. dont flame. i lived in a 39k home (built in the 60s) purchased in Longview in the late 70s. big lot, good size house. it now would sell for over 500k. with all the ‘housing types’ added in raleigh since then have we really more ‘affordable housing’?
That’s just a reflection on the demand for housing with how population has exploded since then, adding housing types is just trying to play catch up.
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as expensive as they might be, the only issue i wondered about with 17 as opposed 5 or 6 was perhaps 15 heat pumps in whirring in unison next to a backyard.