Durham is eating our lunch when it comes to taking a chance on high rises
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Last 6 yearsâŚ
Durham: two 27-story towers
Raleigh: five 20-story towers (301 Hillsborough, 400H, Maeve, Weld x2) + 17-story civic tower + 27-story Omni. And possibly Creamery and/or Nash Sq Apts each ~36-stories.
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And those two 27-story towers in Durham are condos - a type of development Raleigh could definitely benefit from as well!
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Just like the stupid restaurant argument, itâs not even close.
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That building looks fine and if it had been the first thing we had seen I donât think anyone would really mind it, but after the initial plans for the site this is a big letdown.
We get so few really interesting buildings and the original plans for this site were really cool and unusual. I am definitely a bit bummed about this one.
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Itâs worth considering that expecting multiple 10+ story buildings might not be entirely realistic. These types of projects are incredibly complex and expensive to develop. Seeing buildings like Maeve and The Weld come to life is impressive, but itâs important to note that these projects have been in pre-development for several years before materials, labor, interest rates and so on went off.
High-rise construction operates on a completely different level, both in terms of building complexity and ongoing operations. For example, maintaining a building of that scale, like hiring window washers for a 90-foot facade, is a significant cost that impacts HOA fees or rental pricing.
I see the Novus in Durham talked about a lot. Itâs been in planning for years and includes a mix of apartments, condos, and retail. The condos are priced around $1,000 per square foot, apartments are expected to rent at $3+ per square foot, and retail tenants include national brands like solidcore. The last Raleigh development that tried to push sale price above $700/SF (The Lansing) didnât get enough interest.
If projects like Maeve and The Weld demonstrate strong ultra-luxury demand. For example, studios renting for $2,500 and one-bedrooms for $3,500, then more high-rises might become feasible in the future. However, itâs important to remember that a lot happens behind the scenes, and even after a development opens, its financial success could be in jeopardy without the public ever knowing.
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Yes. I was worried this project was 3-5 years in the future given all the other apartments going up, high interest rates etc. Given the run down buildings, blight, and current tenants- this is a HUGE WIN for the neighborhood. Total buy in from me.
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So, more 5over1 construction. 
@raleighdeveloper The push and failure for $700/ft @ The Lansing, has some context to consider IMO. First of all, it wasnât going to be a high rise, rather another 5over1. Secondly, its immediate community would primarily be university students & businesses that support them. If I were going to spend that sort of money, Iâd expect something & somewhere else.
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Is there something about Durhamâs market that means that $1,000/sq.ft. makes sense there, when it doesnât here? Lack of inventory growth in Durham vs Raleigh, maybe?
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I do wanna bring some positivity here; while, yes, the updated render is certainly a let down compared to the initial proposal - letâs all at very least appreciate the fact that the facade appears to have the SAME MATERIALS AND COLORS from ground to parapet wall!!! Looks like they did two different facade materials to make it look like two buildings split in half - but they keep the aesthetics from the ground to the tippy top on each section!!! AMAZING!!!
EDIT: Sorry @Mitch this was meant as a general comment in this thread, not a direct response to you!
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@Jake, I think someone hijacked your account. That post was unusually upbeat. Please continue to allow the imposter to post for legacy Jake.
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Whatever. Itâs density.
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I think in Raleigh youâve got people that want to be in DTR, North Hills, the Village, Cary, Morrisville, North Raleigh, so on and so forth.
In Durham, people want to be in DTD.
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Iâm with you⌠when I heard it was downsized I feared the worst but this looks quite elegant.
Last 6 yearsâŚ
Durham: two 27-story towers
Raleigh: five 20-story towers (301 Hillsborough, 400H, Maeve, Weld x2) + 17-story civic tower + 27-story Omni. And possibly Creamery and/or Nash Sq Apts each ~36-stories.
Durham Center 2, YMCA, and the new CC Hotel would bring 3 more 27 floor buildings to Durham if weâre comparing things that are proposed and not built yet. There are also shorter proposals. All of these things have faced delays similar to Raleighâs projects. Anything could end up not happening. Durham also has a hard 300 ft height limit so once Raleigh manages to build anything at all beyond that in its downtown itâll have the last laugh.
I think the improvement has followed a similar pace in both downtowns overall, with Raleighâs extra growth for its size getting funneled into North Hills.
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Is that height limit due to an external force like the FAA (see: San Jose or San Diego) or is it an arbitrary one they can change (like Philadelphia used to have)?
Itâs certainly not due to protected views (Austin, Portland) or respecting a major landmark (Washington, Madison).
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Thatâs a great insight - I agree.
Downtown Raleigh absolutely competes with DT Cary and North Hills in the âwalkable Urbanâ market, yet Durham has more scarcity for that product type and is just far enough away from other urban centers, plus in a different county/school district
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And I just learned that one of these 27 story condo buildings is in fact a hybridâŚ
Pulled from the TBJ â
And 41 of its 54 condo units have sold so far. The tower also has 188 apartment units, which will begin leasing up soon. Amenities at The Novus include hot tubs, pool, spa, golf simulator, fitness center, putting green, a pickleball court and more.
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from what I understand it is an arbitrary height limit and I think when it was done many years ago no one would ever thought downtown Durham would take off with new growth. I think it was done in response to that University Tower out on US 15/501 in the suburbs that is taller than 300 feet. They need to remove it for the urban core of Durham. And for that matter downtown Raleigh needs to remove their 20 and 40 story floor limits too.
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The Novus is a similar development to One City Center, both built by Austin Lawrence Partners, with One City Center completed in 2015.
From a technical perspective, the building is divided into three âmaster condosâ: the retail portion, the apartment (rental) portion, and the owner-occupied residential units. This mixed-use ownership structure presents a unique challenge, as it requires a lender experienced with financing distinct segments within a single building. Interestingly, a few years ago, the apartment portion of One City Center sold for $55.7M.
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