I really like this response.
Wow. That is a very nice way of saying that I (and many others who think the same way) suck and are uncaring about the world… I guess I need to work on my morality as apparently I am severely lacking …
1 Like
Well I feel like Americans have collectively made the decision to forego environment, aesthetics, and sustainability in favor of mcmansions, backyards, and high speed boulevards. You are welcome to make your case for the morality of it but I probably won’t agree with you.
4 Likes
I am all for Raleigh growing and having a great downtown. I am for light rail or commuter trains. I am for the downtown stadium. I am for better urban planning and mixed use developments. I am for all of that stuff. The major difference between me and some of you out there is that I can be for all those things and yet not vilify those who love the sprawling suburbs and all those things you apparently abhor. I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.
3 Likes
When I read comments like Keita’s, I feel like the critisicm in them isn’t entirely meant to be directed at individuals but at society in general. We as a culture as just sort of meandered down a path towards where we are now without really ever needing to stop and consider where it’s taking us. And now people are beginning to question that path. Personally, I don’t think people with large suburban homes are amoral or evil. But I do think as a society we need to start questioning ourselves about the sustainably of sprawl and the effect it has on the overall population.
8 Likes
Suburban life is systemic in our society and not the result of anything that anyone today initiated. This goes back to post WW2 society and the rise of the automobile. Most of us grew up in this model because it’s what our parents chose for us. It’s what we know/knew.
Given that Raleigh is a city, like nearly all Sunbelt cities, that grew substantially in the post WW2 era, it’s predominantly suburban. This city grew almost exclusively suburban for the better part of a half century, meaning that its core was largely ignored. It did this because growth followed the money, and the money wanted to be in the suburbs.
While there’s no doubt that suburbs, in some form or another, will persist and thrive for years to come, I think that they’ll morph as “where the money wants to go” changes.
Today, because living tastes are changing/evolving/morphing, the suburbs have to compete with central cities for the money. This is not a Raleigh trend; it’s a national trend. I think that this is the context in which we are having this branding discussion. I firmly believe that Raleigh needs to shape its future and its image away from just “comfortable suburban life” in order to effectively compete in this changing World.
To be clear, I don’t think that suburbs need to be abandoned, and I don’t think that they ever will. I just think that they alone are not valuable enough to entice future generations to come to the city, or stay in the city. Even those who find themselves living in our suburbs today place more importance on downtown because it’s increasingly where they want to go for experiences.
Just two decades ago, everyone went to the mall for entertainment. Now what’s happening? Malls around the country are dying, and big box & department stores are struggling & closing their doors. Even in fast growing Wake County, malls aren’t seeing the action that would have seen 20 years ago. An increasing number of people aren’t satisfied with chain restaurants and “anywhere in America experiences”. These are all meh experiences: neither good nor bad. They sustain us but they don’t inspire us.
Even suburban developments have shifted to ones that mimic city experiences. We’re seeing more walkable “town centers” in new developments. We are seeing more community gathering areas and play areas for kids in exchange for less personal land. We are creating more opportunities for neighbors to meet neighbors, and we’re putting more of the cars behind our homes instead of in front of them. Ironically, these are all the sorts of things that cities of yesteryear provided to the citizens that started abandoning them 70 years ago.
10 Likes
@John - good points here.
I think this is true and will also present a lot of challenges for Raleigh and similar cities as we try to upfit downtowns to attract the money/talent while still needing to support/maintain/expand suburban infrastructure where the vast majority of people continue to live.
According to the 2018 State of Downtown Raleigh report there are only about 17k people living within a mile of downtown. A very small percentage of our overall population of ~470k people.
Will we be able to justify continued investment in our downtown if only a small % of Raleigh’s population lives there? I know that population is growing and I know that denser downtown development generates much higher tax revenue per acre than suburban environments.
I’ve been thinking about how Dix park presents an example of this tension between urban growth and our suburban reality. How do we make Dix a “park for everyone” if it’s a pain in the ass for most everyone to get there because they want to drive there and park onsite?
To be clear - I am not in favor of adding any more parking in Dix - just looking at this from the likely perspective of a lot of Raleigh’s current population.
3 Likes
It’s justified by tax revenue per m2 within the city’s existing footprint and infrastructure. While there may only be 17K people downtown now, that number will grow more rapidly by % than in any other developed part of the city due to the nature of how housing is provided. Also, the count of people living downtown is only one metric that contributes to the city’s revenues.
No other part of the city has the potential to over-contribute revenues, relative its size, business, and population, than downtown.
3 Likes
Yeah, I agree with you. But city council is an elected body and the vast majority of voters continue to live in the suburbs. If they feel their lifestyle isn’t being accommodated by council they’ll vote them out.
1 Like
Clearly this is a fine line that the city has to walk. IMO, the city needs to better communicate how decisions to develop its urban core and corridors benefit all citizens. For most people, this would be the financial narrative.
Given that Raleigh’s not a poor or struggling city, I’d suspect that most citizens are (how do I say this nicely?) lightly engaged.
3 Likes
It will be interesting to see how suburbs age as generational changes lean toward fewer nuclear families per capita. 10k Americans turning 65 every day for the next 16 years plus younger generations having fewer kids and marrying less. I can imagine suburbs (like the really sprawly, out there burbs) slowly transitioning from a desirable place to live due to cost per square ft, to a borderline “dead zone” as those houses age and their inhabitants move on to other locations or planes of existence.
I know of a zoning rule in Cary that allows a home to be converted to an assisted living facility with bedside nurses and multiple beds, with a proximity clause of something like no less than 1 mile distance between them. I can imagine this becoming a trend as the need grows much larger…
1 Like
Inner-tier suburbs are already hollowing out.
Meaning the burbs that were built 20 to 40 years ago?
4 Likes
I’ll be one of those people. 
1 Like
As much as I’d like to deny it, I will be too.
Be careful putting too much value on those viral top 10 lists. They are often bogus and should be looked at more as entertainment than research. Apparently we even have a pretty prolific “fake top list” producer local to the area: https://indyweek.com/news/guys-discovered-one-weird-trick-building-clickbait-empire 
4 Likes
This was actually pretty interesting, read a lot like one of the better-quality Vice articles.
It also makes me wonder if we (both the city, and this website) could start to position Raleigh as a leader in localism? Even the clickbait makers admitted to this, after all:
“We really do have a passion for local news. I wish we had the money to do more original reporting and original videos, on-the-ground stuff about Durham restaurants and things like that. Unfortunately, that’s not what the Internet wants.”
…except, what if we could change this? We’re also where Offline started (a more locals-driven Thrillist?), after all.
3 Likes
Totally agree. I got way more into local news and development discussion after moving here. Sites like this one, New Raleigh (RIP), even ITB Insider have played a big part in this. I didn’t feel as connected in bigger cities like Boston and Philly.
4 Likes
#3 Best State Capital to Live in
2 Likes