Yes, that’s part of the argument. The part of the OZ where this is going to happen probably shouldn’t (in theory) be part of the OZ to begin with. But it is because it extends further south. From all that I’ve been able to read about this project, it does not sound like Kane was interested in this part of town until it was designated as an OZ, but I don’t know that 100% sure. Either way he and his investors will be getting millions in tax breaks because of a program geared to help the low income people ‘nearby.’ It’s neither his fault or the low income folks fault that it was a large zone, but it does create this awkward situation…especially when he’s asking for additional public money (which is an additional conversation).
" Just on the other side of I-40 are neighborhoods that include modestly priced single-family homes and multi-family units. The census tract that encompasses both the stadium and these neighborhoods is nearly 60 percent minority. Its median family income is less than half that of the metro area; 28 percent of residents live below the poverty line. More than half of its housing units are rentals."
Edit: I thought someone above mentioned that the stadium was considered by some to be a threat, but I see they were referring to its relationship to core downtown, not the whole city. I’m actually ambivalent on this project, as a big soccer fan I’d like to see it succeed, but 1) for reasons others have articulated on this site, I’m still wary of the whole MLS ponzi model 2) I hope they’re able to work something out that helps provide some benefits for those across the beltline since the OZ will be giving millions to its investors 3) those that have called the process playing out as “extortion” above give me pause that support for the project goes beyond mere navel-gazing, for reasons already highlighted.
… maybe I’m confused but this is honestly how Opportunity Zones are designed to work. The states designate census tracts below median income in which they want to prioritize investment, the IRS cuts a break on those projects, and more investment theoretically comes to those areas. The State of North Carolina designated those tracts and I can assure you not an inch of ground was “accidentally” included.
That of course is a silly trickle-down-economics voodoo system designed to shovel money into plutocrats’ pockets. You might wonder why Uncle Sam doesn’t just invest that money directly. Well, this was part of the Trump Tax Cuts and Jobs and Ponies and Candy Act - you know, the one that disproportionately benefited big businesses and wealthy individuals, expanded the deficit, and failed to generate appreciable investment or spending.
Personally I think gentrification is a very interesting and complicated issue that needs to balance a lot of different interests. But if the argument is that a gentrifying apartment building doesn’t meet the intent of the OZ, we’ll, that was the intent
I agree that it was a very weak and poorly designed program to do what it says it was intended to do, what they told voters it was going to do. Nevertheless, that doesn’t make the impacts disappear, nor excuse our own responsibility as a city to review these impacts. And you’re right, I wasn’t saying the OZ should have been cut up, but more acknowledging that it’s an odd urban census tract.
This area (Penmarc Dr to the Bain Waterworks) has sorely needed someone to DO SOMETHING with it for years and it would appear from the far far edges of the peanut gallery that the OZ did in fact spur interest in this development moving forward. I’m of the mind that if you want to avoid ‘complex’ development, you probably don’t wade into an OZ but rather, you considered the complexity and all that comes along with it. So, maybe lucky for us that Kane has some experience in navigating through some complexity to achieve desired developments and maybe, through significant conversations the end result sparks the rest of the OZ to benefit of many.
The pratfalls and challenges of the increased visibility of the region’s promise will intensify the decisions to be made as the city continues to level up and I honestly think this corridor is one to keep a very close eye on as we factor where investment in ‘Liveable Raleigh’ (the place, not the shout at the clouds types) should be made.
If this image is to be believed then why all the extra work and cost to have it up-zoned to 40 floors? Maybe their intention is to sale like all the other developers? Sad, because this rendering doesn’t even look as good or as developed as Mid-Town much less North Hills
So what does that have to do with shaking down the DT South developers? Because everyone around is getting displaced (by market dynamics…from unrelated developers)….why should Malik & Kane have to be punished for something that started years ago?
I think the point (tax breaks) wasn’t tough to understand. And “punished”?? Citizens and cities have realized how some of these projects like stadiums have not been great deals for taxpayers and asking a little more from those that receive tax breaks, tax revenues, etc. Because it wasn’t addressed in the past doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have been or shouldn’t be now, why make the same mistakes over again?
What stadium?…….there is NO taxpayer subsidized anything currently in this project. This is a private development on privately owned land…period.
The purpose of OZ incentives are to stimulate economic growth in areas that have needed economic infusion for a long time that creates jobs for everyone. That’s the value proposition of OZ……shaking down developers on top of that is what you have with DTS.
Isn’t there a stadium involved in this project? It’s shown on the right side of the rending pic from less than a day ago. At either rate, the point was they are getting tax breaks to create projects that will provide benefit to the low income people in that area, if the citizens of that area are skeptical that the development will do this…do you just tell them that you don’t believe them? What would be your evidence?
Nothing in development is ever guaranteed. Having said that, at this moment in time, no tax breaks or subsidies have been given out. So @UncleJesse is right. However, your questions are still valid as that could change any day in the future. Or not. We’ll see how it shakes out.
Yeah, as an OZ developer, you have the broad outlines down but… it’s just not that interesting. (Anytime bureaucratic decisions are involved, I’ll invoke Hanlon’s razor: never attribute to malice that which is adequately attributable to stupidity.)
The boundaries are just Census tracts, which have ~4000 residents each. This OZ definitely worked in drawing downtown developers’ attention south, which the city has been trying to do forever. This site was pretty much a howling wasteland when I rode the school bus past it in the 1980s. Raleigh doesn’t have many tools to incentivize development (NC doesn’t give cities much authority for that), so it’s good that Uncle Sam is kicking in the sweetener here.
Speaking of which, it’s not a huge tax break; most estimates are that the OZ tax break juices returns by a grand two percentage points. (So, you’d have to put at least $50M into a deal to earn a “million-dollar tax break.”) The primary benefit is a capital gains tax deferral to 2026. If you’re lucky and the new investment makes money, the long-term capital gains on that are tax-free 10+ years in the future.
I firmly believe that, as Andre Perry says, “If you invest in inanimate objects, not people, you create conditions for gentrification. You have to invest in people more than you invest in place.” But the rules are the rules, and the OZ program is about investing in places. Having more jobs (both low- and high-skilled) downtown, and particularly on the south side of downtown, is a direct benefit to South Raleigh residents who were long left out as Raleigh sprawled northwards.
This was the Phase 1 rendering. The phase 2 / full build out rendering: (but remember all the buildings will change anyway, these are just early master planning renderings)
This is a matter of semantics, I’m talking about the whole project as they’ve previously proposed with the stadium as news stories and the developer of the project highlight. Not just one phase. They have asked for hundreds of millions in tax revenues for the stadium. Because these haven’t been granted YET for some of the next phases doesn’t mean that isn’t on the table or irrelevant.
As for the OZs, if the answer is simply “that’s the way it is” by the feds, that doesn’t have to be our answer. Most communities around the country with OZs and plans for big projects are doing the same thing. If that was not envisioned by Kane in his calculus of a “complex” project, then maybe he wasn’t thinking far enough ahead. But I’m sure he likely saw this coming if he’s as good at this as you think he is. Calling it “extortion” is a joke, if you apply the logic above of “sorry, but that’s the rules”, then why would this be any different? It’s business, not one-way, that is an outdated version of community development no longer practiced by any serious city. I’m glad others in our community feel the same and are finally asking more from those that benefit from public investment. Alright, I’ve worn out this thread, I’ll leave y’all to it. Fire away!
As I said previously, there has been ZERO public investment in Downtown South. So without that public investment, what grounds does the “shakedown crowd” of Malik/Kane have to force anything?
Once public investment is involved (which is not now) the input of all Raleighites and Wake County taxpayers should be heard…not just a vocal minority.
Can you provide any context to the ‘shakedowns’ you are referencing*?
I’m guessing that it’s centered around affordability concessions being imbedded into the multi-use development here at DTS in varying scale…BUT, I don’t want to assume.
This development is certainly a focus to carry the water for the cumulative realities of the city’s spike in cost and the uncertain nature of the change involved when redevelopment hits a part of town that’s honestly been stuck in limbo for some time while other areas of town have already seen transformation. The TIG concept entangled with the stadium proposal is misunderstood at best and actively despised at worst - which feeds the polarization.
Alas, humans really don’t embrace the disruption of change well…
*I’m not asking for anything concrete since that would cross a line that need not be crossed and I’m also not trying to wade into the specious differences between negotiations, lobbying, shakedowns, extortion and all points in between…
Question ? And note I’m a Kane supporter of this project and took alot of flack for it and lost friends supporting our buddy, Yes I know him too UncleJesse, definitely not as good as you it seems, but I know enough so again question? What exactly is John Kane gonna contribute out of his own company pockets $$ ?? You keep getting up here talking about he is getting Shaken down, so what are these folks asking for ? Because again you making big accusations I’m also sure the Forum would love to hear details of these claims your making.
I was gonna wait for UncleJesse to respond but, I don’t want folks getting the wrong idea, about a question. I asked, and that was What is John Kane gonna contribute out of his own companies pockets ??? The reason I asked is because him, Bonner Gaylord, Malik and and Former Republican Mayor candidate and Real Estate professional Billie Redmond during the first interview or when they made the big sales pitch for Downtown South on Wral or Wtvd made alot of promises about what they where gonna do now maybe I’m wrong can anybody find that news video Clip ?? They where up there selling this project big time now if I’m wrong then, I have no problem apologizing, but I Want Kane to follow through on what he said he would help out with it’s some back peddling going on and Since baseless accusations can just be put out there basically accusing folks of crimes then, I can make the factual claim that someone is back peddling on there words on things they already said they would do on a public news forum, I’m not happy to be putting this out here, I’m a big John Kane backer but I’m not happy about what I know is going on behind the scenes and I can tell you it’s not RALEIGH AND WAKE COUNTY!! Doing most of the back peddling ! The city and County have bent over backwards for John smh, the man is getting giant tax breaks for being in a opportunity Zone not knocking him because that was smart, the City and County didn’t try and force a Community Benefits Agreement on him and yes it was a debate about whether they could, but again they didn’t force it. I’m telling you exactly what Kane is doing and that’s giving these Nimbys alot of ammo if promises made are not followed through.
Not trying to be rude or anything but what part of the comment you didn’t understand sir ? But I will answer it again lol yes ! But its not like I lost sleep over it .
Maybe their intention is to sale like all the other developers? Sad, because this rendering doesn’t even look as good or as developed as Mid-Town much less North Hills 
