Let me be clear. I am FOR this project, I’m just for a big time rethink of the stadium arrangement and the public funding.
Malik has been very clear in his messaging. This isn’t about soccer, this is about giving Raleigh what they are asking for…a multi-use stadium. If that is true (not so sure it is) then why is the stadium pigeon holing itself by being built as a soccer stadium?
I believe the proposal should be to build a 10k seat stadium that has a unique footprint which can be used as a soccer stadium for NCFC / The Courage, but could be upfit to become either an MLS Stadium or an MLB stadium dependent on what Raleigh is able to get.
If you get NEITHER, then there is no use for a 20k seat stadium anyways and you can live on with minor league soccer and possibly even add Atlantic League Baseball (right @nipper.dwight) in the 10k seat stadium and for WAY less money.
If you get MLS, you build out the other 10k seats and you have justification for the funds and activation that will almost guarantee ROI.
If you miss out on MLS they shoot for MLB, you have the land and the stadium foundation for an up-fit pro-ballpark. This would put Raleigh as a potential front runner for MLB expansion should they get an investment group together.
In this scenario, you are NEVER putting the county/city at risk for fronting the bill on a stadium that they can’t fill, plus you are opening up options for even more MULTI-USE.
For the stadium, that’s true; the demerits of having a stadium that competes with the PNC Arena (which we talked about plenty on this thread and in others) would apply to a NCFC stadium no matter what. In this context, it makes sense to go for a 10,000-seat stadium which can be upgraded to 20k seats as necessary like you suggested.
But for the Penmarc district at large, I don’t think this holds water anymore. If Raleigh/county money is going towards investments that help the proposed stadium and make the area nicer for tourists (but it doesn’t go into the stadium itself), isn’t it pointless to worry about this?
It sounds like we’re all assuming that interlocal funding for the Penmarc site is guaranteed to go to the stadium itself. But is that necessarily true?
Specifically:
Did they mention what the funds would be used for? Specifically, which of these would public money go to:
directly to designing/building the stadium;
non-stadium development (e.g. stores, parks, worker/affordable housing) in this new district, or;
infrastructure improvements for roads, sidewalks etc.?
That pool of money has to go to the stadium if I’m not mistaken. It’s for things like museums, stadiums, etc. Kane is getting huge breaks by building in that opportunity zone.
I agree that Kane’s not going to bail out of his intent to develop the Penmarc area if the stadium doesn’t end up happening. What I meant is that I wasn’t sure if this part of what you said is true:
That just means he has to build in a specific region on a map, and the tourist tax funding means he has to develop something to attract more visitors. This doesn’t mean he’s restricted to using the extra benefits for the physical stadium itself, though, right?
Just because Kane wants to build the stadium and take advantage of these two tax benefits, it doesn’t seem like anything is stopping Kane/NCFC from building the stadium with their own money while using local money for infrastructure AROUND it.
Basically:
There are other things that can fall into the overlap between coverage in the opportunity zone and eligibility for that financial benefit. If public money doesn’t finance the stadium itself but still helps it succeed if it does happen, then wouldn’t that cancel out a lot of the concerns people have about it?
That’s just normal everyday business. A lot of developers don’t buy the land until approval as the land is not worth the money proffered until it does goes through the approval process.
I was only stating that it’s not fully purchased so that they can back out of it completely if the city and county aren’t aligned. Kane and Malik aren’t past the point of no return.
Gotcha. Must have missed that part. However now that a deal this big has been made about the property, it’s hard to see him passing up on owning it regardless.
We shall see if the city calls their bluff. We can certainly end up with the most profitable use of land for the developers based on the opportunity zone alone: whatever that may be. It could just end up being just a bunch of dense suburban apartments.
The all or nothing approach is bonkers on both sides.
I would be OK to kick in a portion of the funds for a new smaller stadium now. With the other portion committed, but contingent on an actual MLS team to expand the stadium.
I agree with you. I think Kane and Malik are playing tough and really just looking for buy-in from the city & county and would take a reduced number. I think the all or nothing approach (or should I just say the nothing approach) on the part of the city council and the board of commissioners is what scares me.
