I know everyone says Malik is very influential in soccer circles, but he seems to me like a guy who flies by the seat of his pants. Both the NC government complex proposal and this one are a little spotty.
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Maybe you are misunderstanding my point or maybe I’m not being clear. What I mean there was a way to eventually get a 20k seat stadium if that’s what he wanted. It wasn’t this specific proposal, with this type of messaging and hanging this much risk on the city. (IMO)
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There is a whiff of peddling snake oil here in Malik’s approach and certainly the 'all in or we’re out ’ ask for public funds on the stadium portion is both aggressive and curious considering the other leverage points they have to push this development forward in an opportunity zone. Seems a more proactive approach from council / county commissioner / leadership group could reflect that aggressiveness at the negotiating table and find the ground to move this forward with checks and balances to protect against taxpayers getting burned? There is a big win to be had here…Protections against the massive ask / uncertainty around the stadium size seems to be the crux.
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It sounds to me like they haven’t gotten the support they need and they’re lobbying.
As far as the “City/County potentially owning the stadium” goes, I think they’re publicizing that to see if it turns any heads. I haven’t seen any of the proposals so I don’t know if that’s new or not. It doesn’t change my views on whether Wake County should invest in this.
We have a fairly anti-urban council so the tepid response is not surprising.
The site has certainly been looked at many times through the years, just not with this much publicity. It is not a given that Kane is going to buy this just because it’s an opportunity zone, and there’s a very real possibility that this fizzles and sits through another economic cycle. The upside is that if it sits long enough maybe we’ll get enough sea level rise to force the Marlins to consider a move to Penmarc!
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In my simple mind, at least someone is trying to do something with a stretch of land leading into downtown that is currently “not paradise”. The politics of trying to make it feasible for a developer is beyond my comprehension so I’m not as critical on their approach as some of you. Kane makes things happen…don’t sell him too short too fast.
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If you read the article he says that “it’s a fact lost on the public” that the city/county would own the stadium. That certainly wasn’t included in any of the articles I read, but if it’s been in the proposal all along then I put that on the reporting.
That actually makes the proposal more attractive to me, rather than less. $13M/ year seemed like debt service on $200M to me, particularly over a 30 year period, and it was confusing if NCFC was supposed to be the owner. That’s why I’ve consistently said that part of the deal would have to include oversight, a board with city/county reps, etc. If the city/county owns the stadium for that $13M/year that checks just about all of the boxes I’ve mentioned in this thread.
For Kane/Malick/MLS this assures the public buy in. Kane’s zonings should have an easier time through Council when they’re a partner. MLS has a city with enough political support to back the stadium. It energizes the site with a need for hotel rooms, restaurants and infrastructure from day 1. The City/County really could host concerts, St.Augs, Shaw, and HS events there if they own it.
It also really helps balance the tax scale as well. It goes from “the taxes we generate should come back to us to pay for a private stadium” to “the city/county would build and own a stadium, and this is how we’re going to generate the tax revenue to pay for it.”
I don’t see the city/county owning the stadium as a negative.
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When you say “if I was a fan soccer…” you reveal your inherent bias against the project. I am not the biggest soccer fan myself. Never played. My high school didn’t even have a team. HOWEVER, I don’t really give a damn what sport is played in this stadium. I know the economic impact it will have on the City and I know the ROI will be well worth the minimal investment. I know soccer is growing in America faster than any other sport.
Raleigh will lose out to “charlotte USA” if we screw around on this effort and that will be the end. The nonsense I see posted about “Ohio has 2 teams”, blah, blah…is just that…nonsense. Columbus has 2 major league franchises. Cincinnati will have 3. Both have more Fortune 500 companies.
Raleigh city Council rejects this opportunity and ignores the clear ROI and you can congratulate our insecure sister to the Southwest on its new MLS franchise…
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Are the people that are throwing shade on this downtown stadium project - progressives? Are any of them Republicans, or are these all Democrats.
Same goes for the environmentalists that make it so hard to build in this city. Definitely not repubs.
Who are those that are fighting the DX20 and higher designations for building tall in Raleigh? I’m sure
they are also progressive-minded.
This is a fantastic opportunity for Raleigh and the whole Triangle region to move forward. If it’s foiled, it’s not the ncgop that you can blame.
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I’m not sure why the eyeroll, Jesse. My take on this comes from a place of wanting what’s the best deal for the citizens of Raleigh. I get that we’re all supposed to be enthralled with the $2B development carrot hanging out there for us but I think right sizing the ask around the stadium is a legitimate point of discussion…
It does us no good to ‘own’ (or be ‘partners’ in) a stadium that draws a few events with little chance of nearing capacity and it does the DoSo(No) development no good to have an eyesore instead of a centerpiece if these dreams of ‘major league’ never happen. Calculating ROI on this thing is spurious at best but we can be calculating about how we best right size the stadium component to activation for assessing its validity for taxpayer investment. I’d sign up tomorrow for giving them agreement on funding to build the ‘smaller’ version of this stadium (which would still allow at least 2x the number of folks to attend NCFC games versus the existing site and offer many additional activation options within a 10k-ish capacity) with provisions in place to escalate if in fact the major league needs present themselves. In the interim, we move forward to activate this new event space and its opportunity for the region, while seeing how the development around it takes shape.
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Life is full of risks. The potential benefit for the city is huge and the downside seems meh. What are the opportunity costs: No new wing for Marbles. One less museum.
Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. (Tennyson).
The city would be idiots to not approve this venture. If you are not growing, you are dying.
Build the stadium.
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In my experience I’ve found that people of all political persuasions get the vapors about increased traffic in this region.
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Raleigh will never become a big time city if it fears to take risks (and this is a very calculated one). Each and every one of our competitors (Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, etc.) have limitless entertainment options at their disposal (INCLUDING downtown stadiums). Raleigh isn’t a sleepy town anymore, people expect to be entertained and while the ROI might not always be there for the city, the regional and national recognition is priceless. These opportunities don’t come around often…Raleigh and the city council should consider the impact this can have on generations to come. This makes downtown Raleigh a TRUE destination - not just an afternoon walk/drive-thru.
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This district sounds great but I do think the city should negotiate for as good of a deal as possible. I do not think for one second that this is Kane/Malik’s best and final offer.
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Just because I’m not a huge MLS fan doesn’t mean I’m bias against this project. I’ve stated a thousand times here that I am for MLS coming to Raleigh and for having the city/county commit money to a stadium project .20k seats is fine if we get an MLS franchise, 8-10k seats and built to expand if we don’t.
No MLS team has ever built a stadium on speculation to lure a team. The reason why is that it is a massive risk whose cost could be devestating.
Do this. Go look at open air 20k seat soccer stadiums across the nation and show how they are activated on a regular basis outside of their intended use.
Some of us here have done that and it’s why we’re concerned. If Raleigh builds a 20k seat soccer stadium and doesn’t get MLS, they now have to figure out how to fill it with enough revenue creating events to keep it running… if they don’t then it becomes a huge problem for the city.
Why not approach this in normal way, like every other city that has gotten MLS has. Get the land, get commitment from the city on funding (contingent on getting a team), and build the stadium when they give you a franchise?
I care more about the city growing smart than risking it all on a pro sports team. If this deal was for MLB, NBA, NFL I’d be taking the exact same stance I am right now. It’s not about soccer at all.
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Was or Is the city considering building a stadium for one of the collages in Raleigh?
I believe that looking at a place for Shaw University, St. Augustine’s & Peace College could all share was an idea that the business community and the city once floated? 
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Yeah, just do it. Don’t think it through, just chase the blinky lights…
Come on, man. Yes, that property is nothing right now and concerned folks have wondered what might be there for years - but, seriously - these guys are placing a bet and we have to check that wager against reality. They’ve got the larger stack but we can still play the game…and if done right, everyone wins.
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I am not saying you, but a lot of people on this forum truly believe in Kane and company. If “they” are willing to put money down and sign a contract with the city/county, shouldn’t we give them this chance?
After all, they are all three locals JK, Billy Redmond & Malik?
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Just to nitpick one of your points, Sacramento began stadium construction on spec. It is being spoken as a certainty that they will be awarded the 28th MLS franchise. Hasn’t necessarily happened yet, but if it does, that would make it seem that breaking ground before a franchise was awarded could be feasible.
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We WOULD be giving them the chance but with checks and balances against the best and worst case for the community. That’s all I’m saying…Think about it - PNC arena maxes out just under 20K. Do we ‘need’ a third facility (that’s open air like the artist formerly known as Walnut Creek, by the way) of similar size? How many PNC concerts are there? How many more would this facility get if the same size? Seriously. Red Hat is 6K. IF that moves to Dix in similar capacity to allow the convention center to expand, then the smart play is somewhere in between. Right? Plus easier programming the 10-12K stadium for other things - concerts, college and other athletics endeavors. Which feels better - an event at capacity or most events at 50% capacity? Would this mid-tier capacity stadium ( which is a smarter investment seemingly) not be better served being an alternate that fits the region (event) needs? We’re putting a lot of eggs in the ‘what if MLS’ basket and it seems…well, pie in the sky. If the major league component is a foregone conclusion, I get it (somewhat) but it’s not and we should play the best hand we can.
To your point, these guys deserve our chance (…no one is questioning Kane’s track record) - then why* do they need our financing underpinning the project? Answer is they know it’s a bet and they’re calling… Who takes the bigger loss if this doesn’t go to the optimistic end that’s being pitched and how might the funds in question be better distributed if we can negotiate a better staged deal around the unknowns here?
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