Downtown South development

New Construction
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That’s a great question. Let’s take a look! It’s in a book! (Okay, actually it’s on Wikipedia, but still…)

So, the usual procedure here is that the local government pledges the funding necessary to build a stadium, then MLS awards a franchise very soon thereafter, and then shovels hit the dirt. To wit:

Austin is getting a franchise beginning play in 2021. The owner of the Columbus Crew announced his intention to move that franchise to Austin in October 2017. On Dec. 19, 2018, the ownership group and the city of Austin reached a financing agreement for a new soccer-specific stadium. On Jan. 15, 2019, Austin was awarded an MLS expansion franchise. (The Crew will remain in Columbus under new ownership.)

Nashville is getting a franchise beginning play next season. Nashville’s ownership group launched a franchise bid in August 2016. On Nov. 6, 2017, the city council approved a $275 million stadium project. Nashville was awarded an MLS franchise on Dec. 20, 2017.

Miami is also getting a franchise next season. Now this one is a special case because David Beckham was given the opportunity to purchase an expansion team for $25 million as part of his contract when he joined MLS as a player in 2007. In 2014, he exercised that option, and the bid spent four years in development hell, with MLS commissioner saying repeatedly that the expansion would not be approved until a downtown stadium plan was secured. I’m guessing MLS’s lawyers didn’t write that requirement into the contract, though, because Beckham was finally awarded a franchise in January 2018. Ultimately they did get public financing for the stadium approved later that year, although it’s still not clear it’s ever going to get built.

Cincinnati has a brand new MLS team that started play this season. That ownership group had been negotiating with MLS for a franchise since 2016. On May 16, 2018, the city council voted to build a new $200 million stadium with public money. MLS awarded Cincinnati a franchise on May 29, 2018. What’s especially interesting about this case is that Cincinnati had a franchise playing in the USL that was already drawing more than 20,000 fans per game to play in a perfectly good stadium the team shared with the University of Cincinnati’s college football team, but MLS was absolutely, positively adamant that Cincinnati was not getting a franchise until the city ponied up to pay for the construction of a brand new soccer-specific stadium.

Admittedly, MLS has been sometimes willing to make exceptions for mega-mega markets like New York City, Los Angeles, and Atlanta. But everybody else, you get a stadium deal firmly in place, and then MLS awards you a franchise a couple of weeks later.

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84

David, I think you’re pretty spot on. The only real caveats have been Austin, Miami and Sacramento.
Austin has been an MLS target for years and essentially got a free expansion team because Columbus and the community came together to make sure the team wasn’t moved (there was also substantial legislation involved from the state of Ohio because of how the Browns left in the 90’s). Miami has gotten a huge pass and is now building a stadium in Fort Lauderdale. And Sacramento has been ready to move dirt on a new stadium for a couple years, but still haven’t gotten the go-ahead. Word is they’re next in line though.

As for NCFC and the Kane/Malik proposal, I’ve heard that this has been received well by the league office and is being viewed as much more viable scenario by MLS.

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85

Grumblings Or received well? :thinking::blush:

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86

Yeah, Sacramento is pretty clearly next, which would be another example of committing to a stadium first and getting the team second. I’m not entirely sure what’s been causing the unusually long delay between the two in Sacramento’s case, but it looks like it’s very close to finally being over.

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That what I read. So the answer is no, no city has ever built a stadium before getting awarded a franchise.

When you say
"every single thing that has ever happened in the history of MLS leads me to be extremely confident in predicting that if an MLS-caliber stadium gets built in Raleigh, then Raleigh will definitely get an MLS franchise, and if no MLS-caliber stadium is built here, then Raleigh will definitely not get an MLS franchise. It’s truly as simple as that."

Are you saying you think the only way Raleigh gets a franchise is if they build the stadium before getting the franchise? Or are you referring to getting sign off on the public funding?

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I think, like Raleigh, the concerns about Sacramento have to do with market size and lack of billionaire owner. They’ve gotten around that though by getting amazing buy-in from community - very similar to Cincinnati.

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89

For entirely practical reasons, yes, MLS is willing to hand out a franchise as soon as a stadium is shovel-ready and completely financed rather than waiting until it’s open for business.

So, yes, if Raleigh ever has a stadium shovel-ready and completely financed, then, yes, I’m sure that’ll be sufficient to get a franchise.

EDIT: @Loup20 I should also point out that unless MLS allows a franchise to play at either WakeMed or Carter-Finley–neither of which is ever going to happen, even on a temporary basis–then this is a distinction without a difference since even though MLS would announce the awarding of a franchise before construction of the stadium was complete, the franchise wouldn’t actually play its first game until after the stadium was ready for play.

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My mistake…it’s been well received

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91

Beckham’s been trying to find a location in Miami for YEARS and keeps getting thwarted by one interest or another. It only took him 2 months to get Ft. Lauderdale to approve his practice and exhibition facility there on the site of an existing stadium.
In Miami, land for a project like this is hard to come by with most being sucked up by developers who are building massive luxury residential towers and selling the units to wealthy International investors.
Miami residents are also still licking their wounds on how much they’ve spent on the Marlin’s new stadium, so there’s that as well.

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92

So I am getting very excited about the announcement next week which I am assuming is going to go here.
I hope there is good public support for the stadium portion, i.e. the tourism tax money. My understanding is that the Cary park now is so busy the teams can’t get anything but game time on them. The shape of soccer stadiums seems just right for many concerts, better than most football stadiums for sure. Frisco Tx built a stadium this size, they use for the MLS team and for FCS (1-AA) football championships. I think a stadium of this size, here, will get a lot of use.

A steady stream of non-residents and office workers coming to this area will boosting the mix of restaurants and retail that can make a go of it. That will make a more enticing and vibrant place to live. An ideal virtuous cycle
A public investment in this project may never make its money back, but it will produce a significant net benefit for the city and particularly downtown. At the civic level the quality of life gets the advantage over pure dollars and cents.

Regardless, as we await the announcement let the speculation run rampant!!

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93

This is tomorrow right? This may be the boost we need!

94

Next Monday or Tuesday, if I am not mistaken.

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95

Last I read was the 24th or 25th, which would be next Monday or Tuesday.

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96

I’ll begin…
The pro-ported announcement on Tuesday the 25th will include limited but fascinating tidbits on: An MLS/multi use stadium, large amounts of office, retail, restaurants and apartments. It will include access to the Raleigh belt-line, green-way and most importantly it will include information about John Kane’s desire to finally build and have a “transit-option” not yet seen or discussed in Raleigh. :astonished: This transit option will link all of the JK proposals from DTR to NH’s…:thinking::blush:

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97

untitled

Transit option #1

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98

Does anyone know where this announcement is being made? I’m asking my contacts but no word yet.

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I’m hearing it will be made at the Dillon - likely the Terrace Deck area.

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100

Where did you see this about the transit? It could be some type of lifted rail?

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101

“Prime Corridor” Monorail?!? :stuck_out_tongue:

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102

Kane has wanted to do PRT at NH since the beginning

https://www.ultraglobalprt.com/raleigh-n-c-–-midtown-north-hills/

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