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The fundamental problem is their “participation” which revolves around a definition of “affordable”…which oftentimes seems to translate into “free” or close to it…AND it is focused solely on one ethnicity…East & South Raleigh were mostly white before they became mostly black…but some of these folks (not all) seem to think there must be a guarantee solely for black people. Ultimately what they want is not financially feasible or legal for that matter…but it burns countless months for developers having to appear like they care…knowing good and well the “math” much less the financing side of this time waste isn’t anywhere close to reality. I have personally done enough real estate deals myself to know that any bank or private fund will laugh a developer out the door who shows up saying “I need $100MM…oh and by the way i have give away 25% of what I want to build well below market value…”
This is a phenomenon in every american city that is experiencing a renaissance to its urban core.
These “groups” just wast everyone’s time
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The Planning Commission will discuss DTSouth rezoning this Thursday Oct. 22 .
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Looked up the most recent AADTs on downtown’s N-S couplets:
40,000 on Dawson/McDowell (western pair)
(45,000-50,000 on either side, Saunders/Capital)
18,000 on Blount/Person (eastern pair)
12,000 on Salisbury/Wilmington (central pair)
The north-south arterial bypasses on either side are Rock Quarry/Raleigh Blvd (20K AADT) and Gorman (15K).
Dawson/McDowell are doing the heavy lifting, but are still over-engineered for those traffic volumes. My favorite example of a not-terrible but high-capacity couplet is Patrick/Henry, US 1 through Old Town Alexandria, which carries about 50,000 cars a day on two three-lane roadways. The signed speed limit is 25 MPH, and in my experience you can hit every single green at 27 MPH. (Have even managed to do that on a bike.) It’s a good example of how slow and consistent traffic means more throughput, since drivers can maintain closer and more consistent spacing.
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It’s interesting that the Alexandria couplet also makes you speed in order to make it through without stopping. Clearly, there’s an opportunity to slow the speed on Raleigh’s main couplet, and calibrate the lights appropriately, and still move the traffic through efficiently.
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Patrick/Henry in Alexandria is a great example.
- Literally the same width (66’) as downtown Raleigh streets
- 25 mph speed limit
- Consistent three lane cross section from end to end
- No wasted space on left/right turn lanes
- Sidewalks generally a bit wider than Dawson/McDowell
Things I don’t like:
- Lots of parking
- No bike accommodations
- Sidewalks still narrower than they could be
Kane wants the city to make tax increment grants available for Downtown South:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246576208.html
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Funny thing is he asked for the same for North Hills years ago and was shot down…my gut is he will be granted the request this time around
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His request years ago was for TIF so he could put the parking underground at NHE. City said no, we’re willing to pay for underground parking as part of a RFP on Fayetteville Street but not for a suburban development like this - go ahead and build above ground parking.
So he did. The rest is history.
This is a little different. The ask is for a stadium, affordable housing, etc. Some more obvious public benefits above and beyond the aesthetics of a private development.
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It is amazing to me how different the perspective is on this topic over at the Raleigh Reddit page.
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Lots of good, insightful comments on this Reddit thread! Good perspective from the guy from Pittsburgh talking about how publicly subsidizing sports stadiums turned out poorly for that city. Somebody even referenced Shelbyville getting the monorail, which is really great to see. But, anyway, yes, when you get out in other segments of the community, you quickly see how this thread is not at all representative of views in Raleigh generally.
Man, when did Reddit become good now?
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maybe you should go back over there so you can enjoy your own echo chamber.
Have you been to downtown Pittsburgh where all of their sports stadiums are in or very near to downtown…unlike Raleigh which has ZERO?
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Maybe they can partner and give breaks both ways. More affordable housing and some tax breaks. Not a fan of public money for stadiums unless the taxpayer gets a stake. The taxpayer will pay for over and over with taxes and paying to see events, it’s a lot to ask.
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Hey Everyone , I have emailed the Mayor , City Councilors , Ruffin Hall , Bonner Gaylord , Mr. Kane , Mr. Malik concerning my support of Raleigh Tax Help for DowntownSouth Project / Stadium . Lets flood all
of this list with emails if you do support this project . The Mudcats , The Bulls , both got County support with their stadium , why not Raleigh ?
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Yeah but you back when the Carolina Hurricanes came to Raleigh it was because, PNC Arena was being built just for the NC State but people in the Raleigh City Council were like no that pro-team like stadium like (Downtown South will be) and they refused to fund until a pro-team was included. If it wasn’t for the situation with the Hartford Whalers ( now Carolina Hurricanes) stadium situation in Hartford that caused that Canes to move down here PNC Arena wouldn’t be a thing it cause the city struck a deal cause Tax Dollars were involved in PNC Arena (Then Raleigh Sports and Entertainment Arena) to build it, so the city made bid and struck a deal with then owner and now former owner of the Carolina Hurricanes Peter Karmanos to come down here there be no PNC Arena. And that’s cause then City didn’t care about the educational aspect, no studies, it was about the money. I wish Raleigh City Council was like this with Steve Malik we won’t fund this, or give you any tax breaks, until we have a bid to attract a pro-team that failing in attendance and that respective city won’t fund a stadium, since you want our tax dollars involved in it. And if the current Raleigh City Council could a make bid for a profesional team like MLB relocation team then we have a deal and the City could agree to finding Downtown South. Even at one point former Hornets owner George Shinn considered with the lowness of then Bojangles Colosseum of the moving the Hornets to Raleigh but if it for outcry in that city (which I won’t name) and College overlapping it would’ve… no actually has prominent college basketball and pro-team the Grizzles so it’s possible!!! And also made then and current commissioner come into and say will have an all-star game in this city!!! I wish was more money aggressive not taking the educational route…
Go read my post then email that to council!!!
Rest assured that I have indeed spent plenty of time in Pittsburgh and do indeed know exactly where the stadiums are located, kthx.
But even Pittsburgh wasn’t reckless enough to sink public money into a pro soccer stadium. And even if Kane builds a soccer stadium in “downtown” South, Raleigh still won’t have any stadiums in or around its actual downtown. You may be thinking of Charlotte.
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Raleigh if it gets its money involved it needs to demand that we also bid for a pro-sports team to relo here!!! Like they did with PNC Arena in the 90s that lowkey why the canes came here they were in it for the money, and since tax dollars were involved they wanna to see a good payback in investment!!!
Personally, I could care less about a soccer stadium for a second tier franchise a mile or so away from downtown…if this is what it takes to revitalize a downtrodden part of the city I will support it.
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That what holding our city back a little bit, yo guys want all this nice stuff like MLS and MLB but y’all wanna half-way it and other cities big and small will look and laugh at us for it!!! I’m for revitalization but to the best to the best benefit, and the best of the cities potential, and the full 100% percent.