Yes, “lowest rung” of the socioeconomic ladder. Apologies if it sounded insensitive.
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Developers as gangsters, yeah this sounds like good basis for reasonable dialogue (Yes I’m being sarcastic, no don’t take it too seriously).
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What is the information on the watered down stadium version ? I tried to find this information & could not fine it . Thanks !
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Thanks for the recognition that it could be interpreted as insensitive and for the apology. Accepted.
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Has any consulted with the lowest rung and see what they want, good chance a lot of people want nothing to do with these types of contrived districts or is just what certain groups that may or may not represent who they say they represent want. It’s always about money and power somewhere along the way, just have to dig a little deeper . It was a waste land for 200 years now all of sudden it’s a focus because some developers want to build on it.
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He’s talking about the project overview document I posted yesterday.
The stadium is just mentioned as a long-term aspiration, though, and it’s not factored into the traffic or environmental analyses. If a stadium does ever get built in DTS, it will probably not look like what’s hinted at on this document. I wouldn’t overthink this if I were you.
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Thank you Keita! I was also wondering about that… 
Ha Ha…overthinking is who I am as well…Lol 
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This is truly the greatest point of this whole string…
The stadium is an aspiration. So is affordability, depending on perspective.
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Just look at the picture in the PDF it just looks different!!!
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I think this is the billion-dollar question, and you’re opening up a can of worms by asking this. The City, Kane, and OneWake will all say “yes” to that.
Your answer, though, may depend on how you think of why they answered that way:
What the City and Kane Realty does
The City and Kane use meetings with specific stakeholder groups, surveys, and town hall-style events. In these places, citizens go to project leaders so they can be heard.
They’re more open and publicly announced. But it assumes that citizens have the time and means to show up to these places, if they know about it at all.
People in poverty and disadvantaged backgrounds are often called “hard-to-reach groups” in this context, meaning their voices do not get heard in those events and surveys.
What OneWake does
Another (harder) option is for project personnel to go to the community through door-to-door canvasing and pop-up events. Unlike Kane, OneWake has been actively reaching out to people where they already are. They mentioned reaching out to several hundred local residents in Rochester Heights in this way in their inaugural meeting, and it looks like they’re holding a training session to teach more people how to do this on Monday.
This approach means OneWake doesn’t have to hope and guess about whether their messages were heard. But this also means they might not be transparent about who they talked to or how they got their results. Could they be asking for opinions in ways that are biasing people and skewing results? And how do we know they also didn’t cherry-pick their data?
They could be more open about their methods so we can answer these questions, but I haven’t seen anything like that on their website or Facebook.
Personally, I think the City, Kane, and OneWake have done a great job at getting certain opinions from certain disadvantaged people at certain times. But none of them give the full picture, and the “best” way to do that is still an active topic of research.
There’s a thread specifically about how surveys suck, if you’d like to talk more about this!
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I actually thought that the stadium would be built first ! I thought that construction would start in the fall of 2021 . At one time that was the rumor .
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If the stadium is just an aspirational project that someday MIGHT get built, what are we really gaining as a community here? I’m for the full project, but it seems to me without the stadium, we’re just watering down critical mass of development that could be built closer to REAL downtown…Sprawling out a separate area of concentrated buildings from downtown, just like Kane did at North Hills.
I think they need to insist on the event space/stadium be part of what they’re approving, if that’s possible, not just allowing a southern version of North Hills.
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If you thought the feasibility study’s suggestions would happen immediately, I can see why you’d think that. But consultants (like the ones Kane hired) often work to please their clients, and come up with one-time strategies with vague timelines. They often don’t think much about what it takes to actually make those suggestions happen, so I think it’s super important to take those rumors with a grain of salt. And that’s before we bring the pandemic into this.
Kane et al. are NOT asking for a master plan approval. This means City Council is not directly deciding what will be “allowed” in DTS, so I think this concern is off-topic from what’s actually on the city’s table.
What is Kane Realty doing, instead, then? They’re asking the city to loosen up the rules for what’s allowed to be built in the Penmarc area because they want to build DTS. This process only looks like a multi-way negotiation war because it’s the last big hurdle before Kane can choose to get a permit and build what they want on the land they own.
But a stadium can’t be added in the same way as floodplain protections or affordable housing requirements. Outdoor entertainment facilities in Raleigh that seat over 250 people at once require a Special Use Permit; Kane will have to go through this process even after the zoning change is approved. This mean zoning changes don’t directly affect if Kane will be legally “allowed” to build a stadium in DTS, so it makes zero sense to put the two together.
To be clear, I think a DTR(ish) stadium would be super neat, and I’d seriously consider driving over from Chapel Hill for a game if there’s a good game or concert. But there’s also a time and place for every fight.
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After reading this and other posts by you I am realizing how little knowledge I have of the development process. Thanks for the education.
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Keita is correct. Kane/Malik just want to be able to move on to the next step of beginning to build the 1st building which will not be a stadium…BUT it would be much like what he did with North Hills…”build it and they will come”. Once he can start Phase 1 you will see North Hills 2.0 accelerate.
I know for a fact the Stadium IS very much still part of the “short term” plan but smartly not being allowed fo be the focal point at this juncture.
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Hell yea. Going deep into the policy is what I do 
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All of this information does make me feel better about the stadium . Thanks !
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Yea but without the stadium there really isn’t any vibrancy with this district, this will be like a disconnected district from downtown. And just in general the fight by OneWake the City miss of understanding is why Raleigh needs more outsiders on issues like mass transit, and pro-sports stadiums I will be making a topic on that shortly!!!
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Even with a stadium, it will be disconnected from downtown.
Its best hope is to have a relationship to downtown like Cameron Village or NC State have. Still, those other two have a more intimate/urban road network to the western side of DT than DTS will have to the southern side of DT, and it’s a problem without an easy solution.
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