Downtown South Home Page shows 197 people have signed up to speak @ Tuesday Night’s City Council Public Opinion Meeting . I think that you have until 5pm Monday , December 14th , for the deadline to signup to speak Tuesday Night .
4 Likes
Woah. All the meetings I’ve watched for these rezoning cases in the past have had only 0 or 1 person speak.
1 Like
Mitch , This is one popular Project ! When I saw this information , under the 197 total is a comment section .
Interesting post.
Looking through the list it appears that those in support are primarily developers, business owners, and soccer enthusiasts. Those opposed are primarily social and environmental justice organizations and religious organizations.
http://dcoxforcouncil.com/2020/12/downtown-south-who-has-signed-up-to-speak/
3 Likes
so people who build & create things for Raleigh that actually help the City grow & prosper VS
…those that…??? complain
4 Likes
…versus people whose lives could be ruined as a side effect of what gets built.
Just because “the City grows and prospers”, that doesn’t mean every resident gets the same net positive benefits.
4 Likes
And never will, the real world does not work that way.
4 Likes
December 15th The Choice will Raleigh approve on his groundbreaking project or will they prove once again there just about talk and there a bunch of scared natives not willing to take risks cause of the city lack of outsiders from other cities larger than Raleigh in office!!! And damage potion risk billionaire investment for another 10-20 years…
Full House!!! I guess!!!
I don’t believe that at all. If this is denied, they will probably re-submit quickly, maybe as a PD, do more “community engagement”, etc. Yes a few weeks/months will have been lost… But that’s part of the risk in any big project like this one.
1 Like
you mean the people whose houses will be torn down by Downtown South? Oh wait, there are no houses on this site so really nobody’s “lives will be ruined”…but it was a great sound byte!!!
10 Likes
equal OPPORTUNITY.
NOT
equal OUTCOMES.
7 Likes
For the sake of argument, let’s just say that my parents live in a Downtown South ADJACENT neighborhood on a fixed income and their view of this change is that it escalates everything they don’t want around their current residence / neighborhood while simultaneously changing everything they like about said residence / neighborhood. It’s the sum of all their fears for the outcome of a decision they made years ago. Is your point of view while looking at the asks for altering the existing zoning for these fallow land areas around these neighborhoods adjacent to a flood plain to allow double the infill because the developer is going to do all the right things for these folks downstream OR your argument is that this would be a cool district for you to visit OR that the area needs this development here/ now as this is the natural progression of market forces OR something else relative to opportunity?.. Is your point — these folks are stuck in the way of the wave of progress and there’s always Johnston county…?
Of course, it’s much more complex than the shouting but to completely discount some of the discussion just seems tone deaf at best and in the interest of what? How does this development factor against those on the ground in the peripheral neighborhoods? Like most things, it depends…
I can ride a bike to North Hills from my place - which I bought 15 years ago because I couldn’t afford to live ITB - I’m ITOB, funny world…I’ve been able to withstand the change in market forces. I think how you feel about the ‘culture’ that North Hills brings and how you feel about the end result of what Kane developments become might say a lot about your opinion on Downtown South. I think he’s a force in the marketplace and he’s local which I respect. Interestingly enough, he doesn’t focus on local in his developments because he’s focused on diversification - more his portfolio than any socio-political focus - and based on the recent sales of his developed properties, do we think when he sells pieces of Downtown South to out of town investors that they are going to care about the downstream effects on the folks like my theoretical parents…? It would seem that’s the nits to pick…?
I don’t understand why you feel like you need to be so condescending? But yeah, we all know that; there’s a reason I keep talking about “indirect” effects that happen as “side effects”. So…
You’re saying that a development project only impacts people living/working on the property where it’ll get built, right?
If that’s true, then why are you so hyped up about Downtown South? Every result of this project besides the development itself, tenants, and visitors such as building denser projects outside of downtown proper, or attracting developers to southern Wake County is a network effect. That’s just like displacement (a separate idea from gentrification) and resident distrust.
For what we should provide all residents, you mean? Yeah, I absolutely agree with you on this. But the billion-dollar question is what you consider “outcomes”.
In my mind, what people deserve is an opportunity to thrive -i.e. the “pursuit of happiness” granted in the Declaration of Independence after “life” and “liberty”. But it’s hard to do well for yourself if you’re struggling to put a roof over your head because of high rent (and your family and ancestors were too busy being screwed over to put you on a better path). That’s just stuff from high school psychology class.
If someone refuses to do any of the work to keep themselves alive with all else being equal, I agree, they don’t deserve life to be handed out to them on a golden platter. But the “all else being equal” is just not true.
You’re right: a universal slam dunk is never going to happen. But you could still work towards being better.
Let’s say that you could still get a stadium, tall buildings, and all the other eye candy you want in DTS while having fewer reasons to be criticized. If that can happen with more time, what do you have to lose? …or do you not think Kane can do better than the proposal we got now?
7 Likes
You lose Oracle moving their headquarters.
SE Raleigh is being gentrified regardless of DTS.
Dragging out the process as you propose…just delays prosperity for the City as a whole. It won’t change the inevitable already occurring…OneWake and its supposed “kum ba yah” nonsense (which is really only concerned with one race, not all poor people)…just delays the inevitability of the market we live in called “capitalism”…and provides little to no benefit in the end for anyone.
The jobs created by DTS alone should be something OneWake is cheering…yet they want to spend their time trying to force a private development into some social engineering experiment…with little to no concept of basic finance or how the real business world works.
7 Likes
That’s in the Declaration of Independence, which isn’t legally binding, and ironically written by a slaveowner who denied that to the people he held enslaved.
3 Likes
I’d rather put our collective brain power & policies on strategies and actionable plans to lift people out of poverty instead of figuring out how to keep supporting them within it.
However, we can’t seem to get that sort of commitment from our government, so we end up having to figure out how to keep supporting people while they are impoverished.
9 Likes
SE Raleigh is being gentrified regardless of DTS.
Yes, so this is a great opportunity to recognize that and attempt to alleviate some of the effects. It doesn’t seem like anyone thinks pushing for an improved form of development will delay the inevitability of gentrification. It may help counteract some of the negative effects of displacement though.
“kum ba yah” nonsense (which is really only concerned with one race, not all poor people)
Really? Is the affordable housing being pushed for in DT South restricted to black folks? I thought it was based on income 
Let me be clear, I don’t necessarily endorse One Wake’s specific proposals; I haven’t even kept up with all that’s going on with this project. I just don’t think aiming to constructively improve a development that will drastically transform this part of the city, and aiming to make it a little more equitable and sensitive its surroundings in the process, is all that outrageous of a goal.
6 Likes
I think he is saying One Wake is focusing only on one race. But honestly having worked heavily with the legal and illegal immigrant communities here, there is a strong distain from a lot of the local NC progressive movements for housing for poorer Hispanics.
2 Likes