It seems unrealistic to think everyone is going to feel safe 100% of the time. It’s a city that is constantly growing, I don’t think security is going to stop a fight from happening. At most they may try and break it up. That area has gotten so much better since they have redone the bus station and Moore Sq. I think it will keep evolving and getting better/safer as that area sees new renovations around the park.
I personally don’t feel unsafe in that area, however, getting asked for money can get old. But these are all normal things of living in a city,
Unless you live in Monaco and there’s practically zero crime, etc.
From my view, the “Moore Square is unsafe” argument has been going back for awhile. While it may or may not be true today, you can’t ignore the progress the area has made and increase in safety over the years. It’s only going up and investment in the area is up, private and public.
When I know people who don’t come to downtown at all for a variety of reasons, I think we’re on the right track as it relates to Moore Square and the transit center there.
As long as society puts up with bad behavior, it will continue. I see the same cast of characters every day at the station causing the problems. I see nothing wrong with discouraging this type of behavior for the benefit of everyone.
I never said there isn’t room for further improvement over what we’ve seen in recent years, but the assessment that activity at the bus station is causing businesses to fail doesn’t reflect reality.
@Francisco has some good ideas. City Market—don’t get me started on the lack of vision. I thought the eastern side of Moore Square was going to be redeveloped (didn’t Oak City Cares move to S Wilmington?), but I lost track of what happened with that.
Are there ways of discouraging unwanted behavior here before it happens? Who is responsible for enforcing the rules for loitering/littering/etc. at the station, and are there sufficient resources available for enforcement? Why are the bad actors there and how should bad behavior be discouraged at this location? Threatening fines/punishment to people who have little to lose may not be very effective.
Afraid I can’t answer that with authority on the subject. Maybe create an environmental discouragement on the current impromptu smoke corner (area next to the wine shop). Create a smoker area and can easily be cleaned of cigarette butts.
Any underground station would of course eliminate some smoking while waiting for the bus or at least diffuse it around more.
i’d be happy if security or, if needed, the police enforced loitering or trespassing (non-riders on bus station property). i get from your post that you think it’s hard to enforce so we should just accept it. i’d rather see incarceration for repeat offenders. there’s no reason to give up on these areas. i know it’s not a popular opinion, but i don’t think we need to just accept that vagrants, the homeless, addicts, etc. should be able to just do whatever they want while the rest of us (the customers of nearby businesses and taxpayers) have to just hope for the best. the biggest issue for our downtown success right now is the perception of safety, covid or otherwise. it all needs to be addressed if downtown is going to recover in 2021 and not backslide.
We have a small downtown footprint. Not much room for error if one area is deemed sketchy. Especially one near Moore Square and City Market. I don’t want 1995 version of downtown. To be selfish, this is now my neighborhood. I want it better not worse
Sometimes I do think there should be more police foot presence around that block, but if you think through all that enforcement would entail…you realize how difficult it would be. Are you going to arrest or take someone to court for cigarette butts? Are you going to fine them and be able to follow up to collect? I think it should definitely be discouraged but I also don’t think it’s realistic to expect full enforcement, we simply have more pressing issues, especially right now. I don’t want to spend a few thousand dollars of taxpayer money on officer time and court costs because Corner Timmy won’t put his butts in the trash.
We have people on Glenwood South putting the rest of us and our health system in danger, which prolongs the time we will be under lockdown, which keeps the rest of us from filling the streets and creating our own ‘eyes on the streets’ so I wonder why there isn’t more concern about that…but I know we’re trying to avoid the topic so I’ll leave it at that.
As Francisco mentioned, better mental health care, housing, etc. for any that need it could go a long way for some of these concerns. Giving a homeless, bi-polar litterer a ticket isn’t going to solve the root cause of the problem. And as previously mentioned, if anyone wants to help, Oak City Cares (down South Wilmington) could always use volunteers.
i’m not really talking about littering, i’m talking about the people getting in fights, screaming at each other, aggressively panhandling. there are far fewer cops present downtown than many cities and towns. frankly, im surprised how few state troopers i see on 40 during rushour. maybe i’m just used to massachusetts and ny.
also, separate issue, but i completely agree that glenwood south and other places around raleigh are blatantly violating health guidelines and rules, and i think there needs to be better enforcement of that. not expecting a waiter or bartender is going to police an entire establishment. having this shutdown prolonged because of people being reckless also is terrible for our downtown businesses. i wish more people could see it that way.
I remember the 1980s version of that area, when the transfer station still had that new bus smell to it. I only knew a handful of people who would venture downtown at all unless they had court business. As much as anything the health of downtown, or really any area depends on peoples’ perceptions. Mall, neighborhood, downtown can easily get a bad rep, and that is hard to overcome. Visible police presence is one thing that will calm non-DTR residents fears or anxieties. I am sure we all want to build on the great momentum built this century, it would be a same to let that slip away. Proactive is what we need. To bad everything seems to be geared to reactive.
Sounds like a classic case of different strokes for different folks. If you’re afraid of covid avoid Glenwood South. If you’re afraid of panhandlers avoid Moore square. Those without preference will fill in the gaps. 🤷
that’s the problem, very little oversight from police on this. Precisely my issue. That’s where leadership fails. Some of the behavior (there and other places too but not as frequent) can be appalling
I mean - my family and I take the bus ALL THE TIME and I have never had an issue with safety at the bus station (I commuted from there daily for 5-years!). My kids (5 and 2) are very often at the station (straight shot to Marbles, Read with Me NC, Moore Square) and we’ve had nothing but positive experiences.
