ITB New Home Builds

#1

I made a few maps after looking through every new home that was built and sold ITB in 2018. One map has the total, another has the “net new” (if it was a tear down one for one it gets a zero count and a duplex torn down for a SFH gets a minus 1. I also made a map with the average new home price. I split them all up by CAC. Check it out

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#2

Interesting, seems like a lot of work, thanks.

What’s up with West’s home price? It’s just rental rate instead.

#3

Yeah, I was thinking of the best way to show that. One of the issues with the way I was searching (still the best I could come up with) is that is just covered houses that were built and sold. So some houses like this one were built, but then only show up because they were for rent. That one house never got sold, but it is new. I am hoping to make this more advanced every year, so open to ideas for next year, like adding in new apartments.

There is a new house in my neighborhood that I saw get built as I rode the bus to work every day, but I am guessing the owner has owned the land for a while and now lives in it because no record of a sale has come up.

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#4

Well done. These numbers, at the surface, just look sooo low. (SFH homes built) Makes sense for Central but the others, very low. Maybe that’s a good thing as SFH homes aren’t what we want and instead multi-family??

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#5

Will need to recruit some help to figure out the multi family. Would love to see the data on 2 to 20 unit buildings. It is probably safe to say that the apartments around the Dillon probably provided more units than all SFH, Townhomes, and Condos ITB which is kinda crazy. The Theory Raleigh student apartments on Hillsborough probably did that as well.

When I did this last year (on just a general number level) there were more units in the new 616 at the Village (Cameron Village) than all the SFH and Townhomes ITB.

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#6

Also, here is the home that refers to. https://www.zillow.com/homes/911-Chaney-Rd,-Raleigh,-NC-27606_rb/

#7

Sounds like a perfect “coffee and map” session to me. :wink:

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#8

Net new (or lack thereof) in the South Central is unfortunate given the activity in that area. The city should be encouraging increased density in an area that is being regenerated. More townhomes, duplexes, or even narrow lot SF would at least be able to add dwellings. Huge missed opportunity.

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#9

I am going to do individual takes on the different CAC’s as I get time (thinking one a week), but a surprising things in South Central was that a number of Duplex’s were torn down to be replaced with single family homes. Bigger buildings, but with less people.

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#10

Did a breakdown on West CAC.
Okay, going to do my first CAC (well the ITB part of it) breakdown on the West CAC. Here was my source for what area is in which CAC https://www.raleighnc.gov/cac if you click on West you download the pink map. A decent amount of west is OTB, and Lake Johnson is in West

When I searched for built in 2018 & sold or rented I only found one home in Zillow for West CAC. I am sure this search method is not perfect. Missing apartments etc as mentioned earlier. This is the only home that came up https://www.zillow.com/homes/911-Chaney-Rd,-Raleigh,_rb/ …

There was a “false positive” house listed on Lake Johnson, but it was actually a few miles south of there. So, I excluded it 😎 This gives you an idea of how much time this all took

Back to the new house! Looked it up on google maps and found a street view to confirm there was a house there before. So this does seem to be a one or one new house. Net 0. Just noticed that google maps has 1 mail box in 2014, but 2 in 2007.


Hm… Checking on Imaps & seeing a difference from google maps. Shows this house in different place where there was not a home before. Might be actually be an infill. Checking the street view it looks like it was over here (same house in right). R-10 zoning and .17 acre lot.

So no sales price. Imaps says someone who lives in Clayton owns it and property has a 2013 deed date. But, I can see that it was listed for rent for $2,500 & total assessed value of $341,934. I just added the rent to the big map 4 bed 4 bath probably student housing

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I am learning new things from this house. It appears to be in “special overlay parking district” Anyone know what is up with that?

I would love to know how many units are already in this CAC. Looks like a locked down R-4 area in the middle then a mix of R-6, R-10, and other uses. A total eyeballing it guess is that there are 800 to 1200 units in this area & we got one new one new house in 2018

And, here is the actual location of the home within the CAC.

I got into a lot of detail on one house, but that was because this CAC only had one new home in 2018. Would love feedback on how to describe the CAC & what is going on there. Had to get this done really quick to get to studying for an exam, so sorry for the rushed typos.

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#11

Did some more CAC’s: Here are two easy CAC’s. Easy because no new homes we built there in 2018. The ITB portions of the Atlantic & South CACs did not have any new homes built & sold in 2018 (from not 100% zillow search data)

As these high quality maps drawings show, most of the area in these CAC’s lies outside of the “Inside the Belt-line” area made famous by the @ ITBInsider . I wonder why the tiny ITB part of the South CAC did not end up in another CAC? image

The zoning for the Atlantic CAC (ITB part) is a mix of industrial & commercial. Costco, Trader Joe’s, & the Ritz and some big apartments to the east, but the area stands out as having lots of stuff people drive to, & two major roads people drive on to get out of town.

This area has lot of potential because it has stuff people would want to live near like a Trader Joe’s (people LOVE Trader Joes’), but currently it’s just a place people drive through. @ midtown_bike I know you have thoughts. These pics show the dominant look & feel of the area.

No new Condo’s, Townhomes, SFH’s build & sold in 2018, but some RX-3 (mixed use residential) exists on Mellow Field Dr. Something I have been following is the jump from R-10 to R-X. If you want to build a 4-plex you need the same zoning as these, so this is what we get.

Plenty of parking got build with these apartments though, so yay for driving everywhere.

Now for the South CAC ITB part. It feels like this area is a little Geographically isolated. The south side has a big I440 wall around it, & the North side has the flood plain from Walnut Creek. There are a number of residential “islands” in there though.

There are homes around Fuller Elementary, The Walnut Ridge “bubble looking” development (next to softball fields),<- Infill opportunities there, and a small group of houses gmaps calls Maplewood Wood Forest & Rosalynn Place that I think is one of the strangest places in ITB.

![image|690x462] (upload://meFvWBUlFUO7uaPVqTtlTCsj4ye.jpeg) image

Rock Quarry Road has a place called “Wake Country Transportation” which seems to be the home base for the Public School Busses. Yay busses! Across the street is a really great new project. Its a new Elementary School/YMCA/Affordable Housing development👍. https://www.wcpss.net/southeastraleighes …

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The Rosalynn Place group of homes is strange to me because it is so extremely disconnected. Can’t go south, east, or west to get out of there. But you can walk 1.1 miles ~ 21 minutes to get to Poole Rd. It is even separated from the rest of the community south of Poole Rd.

Everything except the Southeast Raleigh middle school is zoned R-6 (Residential 6 units/acre). ---------- So, that is it for these two CAC’s. One is really commercial with stuff to do but no new homes for sale, the other is very residential/neighborhoody but no new homes as well.

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#12

And here is the latest one.
Happy Friday! kicking off another sub-thread on new ITB homes from 2018. This time taking a look at the Southwest CAC. This is another one with big portions outside of the beltline, but at least 30-40% is ITB. SW had 4 new Single Family Homes and 4 Townhomes in 2018.

This CAC is home to, Dorothea @ DixPark , NC State’s Centennial Campus, The State Farmers Market, & Carter Finley Golf course. Most of the housing is on the east side of Lake Wheeler Rd. But, there is lots of student housing in the north west part. image

And check out the “Pullen Park Terrace” neighborhood, rejecting the Southwest CAC’s natural borders to be part of the Hillsborough CAC. The Kirby Derby Neighborhood likes being different. http://kdd.gamil.com/about/

New 2018 homes were just in 2 spots. This one building on Centennial Campus at “Capability Drive” has the 4 townhomes. 1 sold for $399,900 & the other three are still on the market. Nice pool. The others 4 new single family homes are in Caraleigh near @ Trophybrewing on Maywood. image image

Three of the SFH’s are part of Caraleigh Commons http://www.caraleighcommons.com/ https://www.newsobserver.com/article146026459.html … These are not cheap, but nice infill density for SFH in Raleigh. Interesting that this development is not going up faster. Would think they would build at least 10-15 a year.

TBH, what I am personally really excited about is their future Quadroplex… 😍. keeping an eye out for these. If you are interested they seem to have plenty of available lots.

The one other home is 😥. Smaller mill home was replaced with a bigger SFH that sold for $515,000. So, there was a “new” home, but no new people got to live in the neighborhood. Just people with more $$. Not a big fan. We need more units, not just more expensive homes.

One last note on SW CAC homes & my Zillow methodology. Right now it shows two homes for sale, but has them as built in 2017 🤔. Maybe so, but this data is not perfect (maybe someone will come along & help me do a better job! 😉). But these two probably count for 2018.

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#13

@ADUsSomeday you’re not going to like this but it looks like they’re tearing down 8 townhomes on Glascock and replacing them with 7 single family homes
https://www.raleighnc.gov/content/PlanDev/Documents/DevServ/DevPlans/Reviews/2019/Subdivision/S-020-19.pdf

#14

Those are actually duplexes. The remind me of the ones on Harps Mill Road at the entrance to North Ridge.

#15

Drive by those at least 3 times a week. This was the trend/learning from the new 2018 homes that surprised/disappointed me the most. IMO a growing city needs it housing supply to grow with it. We have such a lock down against building town-houses 4-plex’s or any slight density that the actually supply of new homes being built each year are commanding really high prices. This CAC had 4 SFH and one duplex built last year… on like 900 acres. This makes an opening for someone to buy up a few duplexes at relatively cheaper prices and build some $600,000 SFH’s in their place at what is a net loss of housing for the city. Bizarre cycle of housing supply death. Its like if car companies could only build a few vehicles each year they would decide to build Lexus and Cadillac’s (instead of Camry). Then they find this option to buy a bus company, shut it down and build more of the Cadillacs instead of the buses. Strange analogy, but that is how I feel about this. I think that a property that has a duplex on it should automatically allow 6 units on the same space. If a home over 3,500 sqft gets built then a 4-plex should be automatically allowed on that lot. I guess I should come back to this and add the other CAC’s I have gone through. Can’t tell how interested people are in reading through the details per CAC.

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#16

I also think that because building Single Family Homes is the thing that is most encouraged by our zoning we end up with developers who are good at that. I am betting these developers did a few infill or tear down homes, built up some momentum and now they are doing this because it is a natural step up. I am not blaming them for doing this. When you are good at using a certain type of hammer then everything looks like the type of nail you are used to hitting.

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#17

SOUTHEAST CAC
This weeks ITB 2018 new homes thread is on the Southeast CAC, which had 2 new homes built & sold in 2018 w/ an average price of $334,395 (lowest ITB average). These two new homes replaced one duplex, so added a total of 0 net new homes. ITB this CAC has a little over 965 acres.


Here is the google street view of said duplex in 2012 then the empty lot in 2016, & then the two homes that got built on the split lot. Pour one out for missing middle housing y’all. 2 steps back & two single family steps forward-ish.



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Side note: not trying for an architectural critique with all this (well, maybe when I do Glenwood CAC). Just looking at where we actually add housing. But, this house has NO front windows. What’s going on? Afraid the neighbors might see you? Plan a garage & then attach a house?
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Here’s a pic of where these homes are ITB. The zoning for this area is R-4 (4 units per acre). It is around areas set for 10, 6, & other 4 units per acre. Zooming in closer, the lots very near would be good for a cottage court, but R-4 does not allow that 🤔😥.



This whole area has REALLY GREAT BUS SERVICE! But we have it zoned to keep out types of missing middle or apartments that could let more people live near that transit.


One last note on this CAC. There is a rezoning in the works to allow 80 town homes on land a little over a mile away. We will see how that goes. Would be 80 more places to live than this CAC got ITB than in 2018.

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#18

EAST CAC
this week’s new ITB homes sold in 2018 review will take a look at the East CAC. This is where I live! In 2018 there were 4 new single family homes & 1 duplex built in the East CAC. The whole CAC is ITB, so this will cover the whole 2,879 acres.
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East CAC is one of the largest CAC’s ITB. It is home to the Alamo Drafthouse, Wake Med Hospital, Lions Park, Conn & Powell Elementary, Enloe High School, & The Raleigh Country Club. Big Boss Brewing is even in there.

3 of the 4 houses were west of Raleigh Blvd. around Glascock. I think of this area as the edges of Mordecai. It is closer to person street & more “walkable” areas. If you look North of Lions park, East of Raleigh Blvd, around & South of New Bern, nothing was built in 2018.

If you have driven down Glascock in the last year, you saw this one. It sold for $615,000 w/ 4 beds 3 baths 2,312 sqft. Already on the google st. view. Guess I missed this, but there was a house there before. Torn down to build 3 new ones.



The next home sold for $607,500 w/ 4 beds 3 baths 2,457 sqft. Seems like straight up infill. With an empty lot (atleast back to 2007) being built on.




The last home built west of Raleigh Blvd. does not have good zillow pictures, but it says built & sold in 2018. So, it is on this list. This home was $462,000 w/ 3 beds 3 baths 1,879 sqft. I think it was built between the 2 homes in this street-view.
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This next home is one that everyone around here seems to know about & watch. It was listed at $520,000 & nothing has been over 1/2mill around there maybe ever…. It is bigger than most houses around it. But, at 1,920 sqft it’s not a monster of a house. Very high end finishe




House sold for $480,000. If you go back to 2007, there was no home there, but the driveway makes me think at some point there was. True story, I got picked up by a lyft driver who lives two doors down & bought for $65,000 in the mid 90’s. Cool guy who has a food truck!

On to the Duplex! The contrast between what we just looked at from new SFH & this is so interesting. Check out the exterior. Nothing supper special, but it is pretty nice. I like some of the examples on http://missingmiddlehousing.com/building-types/duplex-side-by-side/#prettyPhoto … better, but this would be okay in any neighborhood

The building might be bigger than some of the small ranches around, but each unit is only 1,200 sqft with 3bed/2bath. In Dec. one of the units was listed for $1,200/mon. Not big A affordable for sure, but google says that’s the mortgage on a $255,000 house, & these are BRAND NEW




So get this. This built on an empty lot, but a few years ago the lot was not empty. It has a 4-plex. At some point the land was changed to Raleigh’s 6-unit per acre residential zoning. 4-plex’s are not allowed in that. The one that still stands next to it is grandfathered in.


Lots of interesting zoning like that going on over here. The place where the $600,000 house from earlier was built is in a patch of 4 units per acre, surrounded by 10 per acre. Looks like the same type of place to me? Why? FYI, town-homes are legal in R-10, but not R-4.

If you look on the east side of Raleigh Blvd. It was decided at some point that everything should be one level less dense than the west side of Raleigh Blvd. So, vast majority of it is six units per acre. No town-homes or anything more than a duplex allowed.

There are just a few town-homes over here, & it feels like someone came across them and thought, hmmm. that is strange we will have to let just that be R-10.


Last thing I want to point out about this CAC is the King Charles ( aka Longview Gardens) NCOD & super downzone. Around New Bern Ave. North and East of the Alamo Drafthouse is a fairly extreme NCOD, & only 4 homes per acre allowed


Here is an example of what that looks like on the ground. 5 beds 5 baths 6,104 sqft. built in 1961 for sale for $779,000 https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/6387129_zpid/globalrelevanceex_sort/35.787575,-78.59249,35.776191,-78.610944_rect/15_zm/ …

I have to run, but I will come back to add some more on housing that is coming up next year. For instance a church next to me was torn down and 13 homes will be built. which would itself be a 400% increase in new homes from 2018.

Finishing off this thread, with future homes in East CAC (that I know of). There are three developments & some random houses I am keeping an eye one. Let’s start with the big development off Poole Rd. By big I mean 99 homes

This is a large # of homes in 1 place for ITB lately & should take more than a year to build them all. There is a mix with some town-homes at the front, but this development looks a lot like ones that we are seeing out near 540. Info here: http://www.raleighnc.gov/content/PlanDev/Documents/DevServ/DevPlans/Reviews/2018/Subdivision/S-067-18.pdf …

The site is 19.7 acres of R-10 & 7.41 acres of R-6, so pretty big. The town-homes are all near the entrance then single family homes flank them & are in the rear. Poole Rd has extremely good bus service near the entrance to this.


The next one is on Milburnie Rd, & is going in where the Longview Methodist Church used to be. Here is the site when Church was there and then a pic from last weekend. It has not been used for around a year & a half, 13 single family houses coming in. @ eliseoras this church




The last development I know if coming is over on Milbank. The CAC facebook page had a long thread on people’s thoughts with this thing. Strange lot layout & location. Check out the original site plan & an update. I emailed the developer asking them to look into Cottage Courts 😎


Check out where they landed. I think under the restrictions of R-6 zoning they got pretty creative. Their FB says they are doing Condo’s in what looks like a townhome/duplex set up. I want to follow this & compare it to the SFH’s on Milburnie. Missing middle vs SFH’s!




Last 2 homes. This one was built on a lot that was empty (I think forever). Sold for $425,000 on 3/14/2019 3 beds 3 baths 1,546 sqft. Pretty high for the east side of Raleigh Blvd (& not in that NCOD on New Bern). high demand for homes & very few new options right now.

Then there is what I am thinking of as the most pure tear down east of Raleigh Blvd. Someone tore down a smaller old (not that pretty) home & is selling a home to build. I walked by & snapped a pic of the cleared lot a while back. This is on a funky little street.



last one that I remember looking through my pics. This seems to be a new home that people really like. They left the trees (good move when possible) & neat design. Will not be cheap though. That is it for East CAC.

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#19

A friend let me know that I was wrong on the King Charles NCOD and it was actually much more restrictive. “To clarify: the R-4 zoning allows 4 per acre, but the King Charles NCOD dictates a minimum lot size of 0.77 acres (!) among other restrictions. Only ~30% of the existing lots within the NCOD actually meet that 0.77-acre minimum. No idea how such a high minimum got implemented.”

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#20

Midtown CAC
Going to try & quickly(probably lying to myself) look at the Midtown CAC’s ITB info. ITB area is 761 acres. This CAC had 8 townhomes built ITB in 2018 all net new. Those numbers put @ AtlanticCac it in 4th place for most net new homes among ITB CACs.


The majority of the land in this CAC (ITB) is residential only 4 units per acre some 2 units per acre ←-Crazy. No town homes allowed there. All 8 town homes are in one development (Wake Town Dr) that buts up to the highway 440. 13 minute walk to Trader Joe’s & future Wegmans.



Officially these are the “Townes at Cheswick by Ashton Woods“ The ashton woods website doesn’t help me much https://www.ashtonwoods.com/raleigh . Pics on their site just show big homes they do. Cheapest “Townes” Home was $350,000 most expensive $575,000.



The newest google street view gives a good view of these things. As you can see there are more than 8. But, I guess the rest were “built” in 2017. Most 2018 from adding a building at the edge. Interesting pic showing “one unit”.




$350,000-$575,000 certainly not cheap. As an interesting comparison, this 1960’s home was sold for $550,000 last year. Then the closest 2018 new homes (another CAC) are all over $1,100,000. There might be something to this town-home idea.



The next map is really interesting. If you look at all homes for sale right now in the CAC. these brand new town homes are a good bit less expensive on average than the older homes/Mansions. Even some land is going for $300,000 out there.




Don’t know if i have anything profound to say about this CAC. But it fits a trend for the types of places we are allowing density. Out of the way or next to highways. Even brand new, missing middle housing like this can be very competitive with older homes in heavy SFH areas.

I said earlier that this CAC has the 4th most net new homes built and sold (not including apartments) ITB. It is actually number 1 for net new Town homes. So congrats on your victory Midtown CAC! https://missingmiddlehousing.com/types/townhouse

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