What none claimed their kid could not sleep because was afraid the big building will come alive and stomp on their house someday?
I definitely agree with the criticism of participant #37âs shadowy bus stop comment. Quite a silly conclusion, but hopefully the infrastructure improvements the city has planned for Maywood & Lake Wheeler will help the overall pedestrian experience feel safer for their kid.
8 Likes
It all sounds like a fear campaign that ripped a digital page out of the Nextdoor playbook, and that fear is animated by any hot topic or culture issue that can be thrown at it from any side of the political landscape.
1 Like
The number of people possibly being literally displaced by demolition here is miniscule in comparison with the number who might be housed here after build out. There are something on the order of two dozen single family homes within the boundaries of the RZ, and the proposal calls for up to 9000 units.
The threat of displacement is real, and surely it can be traumatic. But is it right to value current residents more than the thousands of people who might live there in the future, as if current residents are somehow âreal peopleâ and people who move there in the future are fake, cardboard, carpetbagging gentrifiers?
To me the âconventionalâ alternative here would have these houses torn down and replaced by larger SFHâs, as has been common in other neighborhoods in Raleigh - which achieves the same end of displacement but doesnât even provide housing for more people in the process. This rezoning, in contrast, proposes up to a max of 375 new units for each one demolished.
Now, do I actually expect 9000 units here, no. But I do expect thousands, probably at least a 100:1 replacement, and thatâs pretty solid in my book.
10 Likes
Ooohhh RIP Hartwell.
Just kiddingâŚ
On a related note - âevent spacesâ are starting to get on my nerves a bit. The location of this one is ok insofar as it doesnât create a dead space in an otherwise continuous streetscape (city market), but itâs still about as exclusive as a condo building with amenities, except it adds no residents to the area, nor daytime office users.
It does signal that these buildings arenât being torn down anytime soon
7 Likes
Planning Commission recommends these rezoning conditions to the area. Mostly 12 stories with 20 stories on the edges. Blue 12 stories, pink 20 stories.
20 Likes
If council approves this rezoning I donât expect immediate construction of any 12 to 20 story buildings, but Iâm curious what others think about how the densification (I think thatâs a word?) of this area will work (or not) with the transportation infrastructure. Along with this rezoning, the Hammell Drive project and Park City South are both nearby.
Meanwhile, the Lake Wheeler Road improvement project between S. Saunders and Maywood is designing Lake Wheeler road to be a low speed, low vehicle throughput corridor with lots of bike & ped infrastructure and traffic calming elements - which I think is great. Maywood itself is a two lane road with bike lanes on each side - I donât see it being changed to accommodate more car traffic.
S. Saunders & Dawson/McDowelll in this area will likely continue to be car sewers for the foreseeable future. The southern leg of BRT will be over on S. Wilmington not comfortably walkable from west of S. Saunders.
So, is this an area that could support a car-free or car-lite lifestyle? Iâm not convinced. Maybe the BRT line along Western will help?
7 Likes
Essentially, youâre walkable to recreation (and maybe groceries or some other errands depending on the retail mix), but driving to work and most chores unless you can bike along Lake Wheeler. Still better than most areas in Raleigh, honestly.
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Thereâs a ton of potential in this site, even moreso than the Downtown South location, though the DTS project will make the Maywood Corridor even more desirable.
8 Likes
Iâd agree with this and I donât really look at our transition to supporting a car-free life being one or the other. Developments that support reducing car trips is a big win and the more car trips we reduce, the closer we get to that utopia.
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I agree. We should be moving in the direction of reducing car dependency methodically rather than unrealistically trying to create a completely car free world, because thatâs not a realistic goal for a city without a current robust transit solution, and wonât have one (even if we seriously started today) for decades.
FWIW, we are already methodically on that path with more walkable retail options, more bike infrastructure, better sidewalk experiences, more urban housing options, etc. However, they have not yet fully relieved us of our cars for weekly life needs. I say weekly because I have found that I can go days without needing a car but I canât go much more than a week before I need one for something that I canât reasonably get to otherwise. I think that this sort of situation that was behind those who tried to implement car share programs in some cities. Maybe they were before their time?
Reducing car dependency is a win, and often that car dependency can be significant. I think that we should build upon that strategy until the day in the far future where more of us wonât need them at all (although Iâll surely be dead by then).
8 Likes
I agree that a methodical or incremental approach to reducing car dependency is the only practical way to get there. And thereâs no question that there are real bike&ped improvements on the ground and in the pipeline.
I raised the original question though because I hear a lot of pushback on rezonings like this one from community members. I think the belief continues to be that X-number of new residential units automatically means X+number of cars on the road daily. From that perspective itâs easy to see why the âwhat about the traffic!!â people get up in arms about these things. Iâd like to be more effective at communicating the potential positive outcomes of a less car-dependent lifestyle when talking to people who donât already get it. But the fear of change is strong - especially when folks canât see how change might benefit them.
4 Likes
The NS railroad has an at-grade crossing at both Lake Wheeler and Maywood. Rerouting or decommissioning that line would certainly go a long way toward improving walkability and cyclability in this neighborhood as it starts to build up.
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That is definitely the problem because people canât imagine a change in community behavior. They are seeing the world through a suburban lens and just canât imagine a reduction in car trips.
Personally, I have an example of how this plays out in real life because I have experience with walkable high density without robust transit and no immediate rail service. Take a look around this street view and note that this neighborhood is only serviced by standard city bus service and a local bus similar to the RLine. It also has a bike share station and painted and modestly separated bike lanes.
There are hundreds (if not thousands) of residential units on this tiny island and thousands of residents and garage parking for every one of these buildings. These folks have cars. This location is also walkable to grocers, services, restaurants, bars, retail stores, a multi-screen cinema, etc., and guess what? THEREâS NO TRAFFIC issues caused by the residential density. Most of the traffic is associated with special events on Miami Beach and is caused by folks who pass through the island with their cars from the mainland.
This sort of overall dynamic is something that most people donât know until they experience it.
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Wow. Whatâs amazing is that you are literally talking about an island. I didnât realize that from the street view, but I went to the aerial view and youâre talking about an island that is less than 1/3rd of a mile in diameter. The entire island would easily fit inside the roughly triangular area defined by LWR, Maywood, and S. Saunders. There must be thousands of residents here based on the number of condo buildings and there is still room in the center of the island for greenspace - Belle Isle Park.
Maybe if we could get the âwhat about the traffic!!â crowd to do more traveling theyâd come around.
3 Likes
Yep, itâs literally an island. The key to reducing car travel in this example is populating its walkshed with things that people access in their daily lives. Not only does this reduce the number of car trips, it makes other car trips shorter. For example, from this island you can walk to Publix, Fresh Market and Trader Joeâs. You may choose to walk there and carry/roll your groceries home, but even if you do drive, you are only driving a few blocks, not a few miles. Reducing miles driven is yet another way that density of services and housing reduces the total amount of traffic. At least thatâs how Iâve experienced it over a long period of time.
5 Likes
Set to be scheduled 11/1
https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-raleigh-wire-service/748/2070?u=oakcityyimby
I believe thatâs just for scheduling the hearing. Itâs not listed here yet:
https://raleighnc.gov/public-hearings-city-council
2 Likes