North Hills doesn’t have operating hours and has hotels/bars along the main strip that stay open until 1AM. They can’t keep hotel guests and residents from walking around outside their apartment complex. This would be different to Southpoint where it’s only stores. After every store has closed, then I’m sure people could be questioned. I do wonder how much the no parents policy is enforced. In either case, some cities do have youth curfews so it’s not typically something that only applies to lifestyle centers.
In a way, I don’t have a problem with lifestyle centers that are mixed use with offices, residential, and commercial uses. If it was to close areas such as the park by the amphitheater, I still don’t see the issue as city parks do close as well. Part of the reason why lifestyle centers are in demand is because they provide something the regular downtown has not provided. There is no bowling downtown. For the longest time, there was a lack of a grocery store. The retail options downtown aren’t too great either when it comes to typical national chains (REI, Target, or other stores seen at a mall). What needs to be addressed is why is it that downtown can’t draw these places in? Is it high rents? Is it a lack of demand for these stores downtown? If it’s lack of demand, then the lifestyle centers haven’t taken anything away from downtown.
Glenwood South is busy for nightlife. Moore Square is busy as well. Fayetteville Street is known to be dead, but I don’t blame that on North Hills.
Most definitely. That one in Vegas was terrible.
There are other lifestyle centers in the area:
Lafayette Village - I like the architecture. Yes it’s fake architecture, but it provides something a little different visually wise. Typically people are driving here.
Falls River Town Center - I don’t mind this one because there is housing near it. People can bike there from the surrounding neighborhoods.
Brier Creek - terrible as people mainly drive here and the streets between it and the residences do not provide good connections for alternate modes of transportation.
Parkside Town Commons - Terrible. If they had better connections to the residences around them outside the one apartment complex, then sure.
Park West Village - Bad. Too much lot parking. Chapel Hill Rd and Morrisville Parkway are way too big of streets. There is a way for residents to walk there, but the streets are too big and speed is too high.
Hub RTP when it’s built. Has limited potential outside of driving. Yes I went there. Too much suburban office space surrounding it’s location. But there are positives with this one. There will be residences. I feel this one will be way more exclusive though.
There are a ton of others, but these are some that popped into my head.
Edit to add* Yes, these thoughts keep me up at night.
One big guess of mine is that these brands that land in lifestyle centers prefer to cluster around others. It easier, again guessing, to recruit when a single landlord (like Fenton or North Hills) controls all the rental space and can negotiate rents in order to manage the mix of retail offered.
It’s all highly curated but also built on easy access. DTR may benefit as Smoky Hollow and Seaboard Station, IMO, are taking cues from lifestyle centers being near a high traffic road, Capital, with a “main” street feel around multiple buildings owned by one landlord.
Their location has been woven into the downtown fabric more or less so that’s a good thing. I did see, iirc, a code of conduct sign at Smoky Hollow so I imagine seaboard will have one too though.
Btw, Fayetteville St last night was surprisingly busy. Beautiful Xmas decorations, lights and people enjoying it even with the chilly weather. Put a smile on my face.
Smoky Hollow has a private street through the middle. That is what allows things like codes of conduct and private security at lifestyle centers like north hills. Does Seaboard have any private streets? I thought they were all going to be public.
Not gonna make that Gucci money working there… You should’ve applied for a computer programmer position. You know they can afford Gucci cuz they all wear it.
Yes. That “hollow” and the extension of Tucker through that block are private, but what is fundamentally different about the greater Smoky Hollow development is that it’s bounded by public sidewalks along Johnson, Peace, Harrington and West. Other than the hollow and that glorified driveway extending Tucker through the property, the pedestrian circulation in the area is public, not private.
it will be interesting to see how this plays out in Seaboard. Being differently connected to the city grid than Smoky Hollow, it’s much easier to imagine it playing out more like a lifestyle center.
Not sure actually. I thought Abel Alley was private looks like it was not. They are extending Seaboard avenue but I’m assuming the new section will be private since it’s the “main” street.
Just looked at iMaps and learned the following:
Semart Dr. is private and owned by CSX
The parking lot at the top of Semart Dr. is owned by Peace U.
Seaboard Station Drive through the development is private per the developer.
Seaboard Ave (East/West) is public as is Seaboard Station Drive between there and Peace.
W. Franklin (East/West) is public
So, it’s a mixed bag that has the pedestrian going in and out of privately owned streets.
in a discussion a few years back with a raleigh pd officer…he did tell me that if he saw a group or younger folks on a sidewalk in a neighborhood an eye was kept on them.
Here’s a video that does a good job describing what I think about the difference between downtown and midtown. It does a great job giving the history of the mall and identifying its problems.
Charlotte USA has a quick dishonorable mention in it and that’s a nice, small Christmas gift. The video also highlights specifics of why malls fail, and there are definitely some things that North Hills is doing to improve the experience, namely making it more mixed use. The Problem With Shopping Malls - YouTube
