Thanks for the link. I did watch the full video on Saturday night and clearly something needs to change. Save for 2 of them, I found the speakers to be authentic in their stories and passionate about their businesses, employees and customers; and they do have legitimate concerns that deserve action. If folks are scared to come downtown to patronize business, it’s game over (or at the very least a massive step backward) for downtown’s ascension. While this is at a crisis level in and around Moore Square and the bus station, it’s something that needs to be looked at holistically throughout downtown. I’ll say more about that in the Future of Glenwood South topic.
While many of us are rightfully empathetic to the homeless…err…un-housed, we can’t ignore why they are in their situations. We can blame gentrification and lack of housing all we want, but many are un-housed due to other underlying issues like addiction, criminal records, mental health, etc. I don’t know the ins and outs of how community or faith-based centers for helping these folks run here, but I know that those who aren’t clean of alcohol and drugs often can’t get help from shelters elsewhere. It’s often a vicious cycle. You can’t get help because you drink and take drugs, and you can’t quit drinking and drugs because it’s the only way of self medicating emotionally for being desperate.
Is keeping these folks fed and barely hanging on in the streets the right solution here? The underlying issues for these people need to be addressed or we are literally just feeding and perpetuating the real problems that these people face, while creating problems for the greater society. These problems have to be addressed, not fenced off or pushed elsewhere.
Agreed. Housing first.
Looking at examples in the world where a municipality found a way to improve the lives of folks struggling - whether with the normal slog of making ends meet or, more typically, mental health and/or addiction issues stemming from other turns in life’s marathon - the road to stability starts with a place to safely lay your head and the space to take stock of your life to refocus on improving your own lot…
Buses are only free due to town council approving it as free until June 30, 2024. Major cities in the US and Europe have fairly strict ticketing and access to buses to ensure those traveling are going with a purpose and getting a ticket scanned for validity by an officer is effective and in practice. This helps fund security and imposes a barrier of entry that is necessary to maintain a proper/ safe transportation system. There is a common denominator in Moore Square area that is unlike the rest of Raleigh and it appears to be the bus terminal and direct/free access into the downtown core.
The reality is - if you are going to inject bad intentions into an area, you are going to deal with the consequences
“Should we block free roads and free sidewalks too?”
Roads are already being blocked in downtown Raleigh. Been to Glenwood South lately? Sidewalks have limitations on what they can be used for already in many areas of Raleigh (no loitering, skateboarding, etc etc). So it’s already happening.
The issue with Moore Square is a consequence of overlooking some things. It’s a centralized area for getting from point A → B in Wake County. People that have issues with addiction that have no place to go, as John said, are going to stay in this area because of that perk. Throw in the fact that Moore Square is pretty nice and not a private establishment, and it is almost magnetic.
Since many of these homeless people are addicted and have nowhere else to go, those looking to sell these people what they want with the money they have will also frequent this area. Drug dealers will become common and appreciate the built-in clients/business. It also helps that customers can take the bus from all over Raleigh.
The root of a lot of the problem comes down to finding a place where those with addiction issues can live and be treated. This area should also not be next to the bus transit or Moore Square. I’m not sure what goes into building or running a facility like that, but I think it’s something we need desperately.
Building something like this takes time. Until then, we need to deal with the issue. Increased security and police presence will have an impact on the bottom-line of those intending to deal drugs or commit acts of violence. We need more lights so people feel safer walking around as it gets darker in the winter.
Regarding bus fares, looking at the following article: https://www.axios.com/local/raleigh/2023/03/23/the-future-of-fare-free-buses-in-raleigh
82% of those using the bus make less than $35000 a year. 64% of trips are used to get to work. Instead of blanket-reintroducing fares, I think it would be a good idea to provide a free bus pass for those that use the bus to get to work. This would require sharing proof of employment.
I’d also be happy to have a similar bus pass extended to those that are homeless. But, only if they show that they are working to change their situation within a shelter or addiction-treating center. Those that are not using the bus to get to work or actively working on themselves would be required to pay. That is something I’m fine with, although I’d be open to hearing what others think if I’m missing something here.
Moore square is surrounded on one side with the bus station (which is free apparently?) and the rescue mission on the other side, and we’re shocked homelessness, drugs and crime is higher there? Moving those would solve the problem for Moore Square…but it would just move the problem somewhere else (which I would be in favor of).
Also, this area and Glenwood South should implement better lighting and enforce a strict “No Loitering” policy.
You missed my point.
Sounds pretty authoritarian to me. Why don’t we have strict control over who uses roads too, to make sure everyone is ‘going with a purpose’?
I’m not saying we should or shouldn’t re-introduce bus fares, but it’s a lot more complicated then, ‘Let’s charge bus fares so it will keep ‘undesirables’ out of the city’. Lot’s of things to consider, including the low income folks who can’t afford cars to get to places like jobs.
I’m sure that some of the folks coming to Moore Square and cause trouble are riding free busses, but for that to be the reason to charge fares is a bit of a leap. They will either just pay the fare, or find some other way to get downtown.
I live downtown and walk through Moore Square every day. These issues have been worsening over the past few years and were largely ignored but I am very optimistic that we can get this under control now that the City Council and Police are acutely aware of the issues. I have seen improvement recently with increased police presence and private security. There was private security outside of Raleigh Times yesterday and there was no apparent illegal activity that I could see. I think the very most important thing we can all do is go down there and support the businesses in the area. The more of us that are there shopping, drinking, eating, etc the better. We should also support activities in Moore Square such as the jazz concert with Al Strong a few nights ago. Also, tell everyone it’s ok to go downtown and to support the businesses. It is still scary but it’s going to get better and there really are no or very few violent crimes against people who are not involved in some drug or other confrontation so it is still very safe for the general public.
More people. More housing. More business. Get enough people into downtown and it creates safety in numbers. For the time being… more security to keep the area from developing a stigma.
I don’t support turning into a police state over fares. I think it will do little. I also fundamentally believe we all deserve 3rd spaces where you do not have to spend money to exist. We were all talking about bringing a library to downtown, lest people forget.
As for moving some of the services so that they’re not as concentrated… sure… who would like to volunteer having the rescure mission next to them? You will face immense pushback from whatever neighborhood gets it.
We are already managing certain roads in ways that ensure purpose - Glenwood South is a good example.
These are the hard decisions I was alluding to in previous posts and the City will have to define how to handle this and what type of downtown we are looking to have. The pendulum of acceptable activity has swung in the wrong direction and we are likely going to have to swing it back.
Sure, I don’t want to impact low income folks, but with each decision there will be a casualty of consequence.
We can decide that no, we aren’t going to swing the narrative back to making the downtown safer by creating a stricter environment and business friendly atmosphere due to the impact we have on those currently causing issues, thus continuing to lose business and creating a worse problem.
OR
We say, this is not what we want and we create a safe, welcoming environment, where folks want to come and be a part of downtown spending money enjoying the $13million park and actually contributing to the fabric of what holds solid businesses and residents in place - yes some folks will be impacted, but that’s the nature of the beast. As more folks frequent the area and things get built and safety is established the reigns can be loosened a bit.
Right now there are 2 police on horseback walking through Moore Square and the bus station. I love this idea! Feels like friendlier policing to me.
Bank of America’s former CEO, Hugh McColl had charlotte, usa move the public transit center AWAY from his Taj McColl tower he had built back in the day. Absolutely true.
Why do you think this was the case? Just look at Moore Square
100% done with Moore Square. Until I can take the kids through the park without getting panhandled, cussed or spit at, this DTR supporter is out. Let’s make it 6 months without a stabbing and I may come back. I will unapologetically protect those closest to me. #sorrynotsorry
The fact that people are getting loud about how sketchy Downtown has become, specifically by Moore Square, makes me optimistic that the city will finally step in and fix the issue before it’s too late. My family moved to downtown Raleigh last year almost exclusively because the reputation the city built as being one of the safest mid-sized cities. When we initially moved here we would force ourselves to walk everywhere and patron all the local restaurants, bars and shops but now we find ourselves avoiding so many parts of downtown because we, frankly, do not feel safe. The city needs prioritize the people and families that want to help foster the downtown community. I hate to admit this but there is absolutely no way we’re going to stay downtown if things do not improve.
So if you’re going to have panhandling and crime, would it not make sense to have it away from your most populated areas and city center? You can’t wave a magic wand and eliminate drugs and homelessness. That’s an issue that is going to take a lot of resources and time to fix. lmao
@FrankP, first off thank you for being a part of the DTR community and I hope your experiences in DTR to date have been largely positive! Thank you for choosing our city! I too am hopeful we’re at an inflection point that we can overcome to ensure living downtown is safe. Stick with it! We have city official eyes on this forum and comments/experiences like yours that are fresh to the forum and genuine need to be given weight. Thanks again, Frank.
I feel your pain on this one. I’m a long time lurker and don’t usually say much and this issue really got to me. I’ve always wanted to live downtown Raleigh rather than my current 10min drive in. My wife and I finally decided to pursue buying a condo. After last weekend we have decided to nix the idea for now until we can be certain that the City of Raleigh has our investment in their interests.
Agree. I’m getting married downtown later this year and now my fiance and I are nervous about our visiting friends and family feeling unsafe or leaving with poor perceptions of the city. I lived downtown for the last 8 years and while we always had occasional issues, it was never as bad as it has been lately.
My dog walker couldn’t make it over Sunday to walk our dogs in the morning while we were out of town. The reason? She made the mistake of parking in the vicinity of Glenwood South visiting a friend and woke up to broken windows and slashed tires.
Easily 8 cops at the park and bus station at the moment patrolling. They for sure have stepped it up.
Maybe have a police substation here or even move the police HQ here.
They may be looking for the suspect. Last I read they still haven’t caught him