We went to Bittersweet last night and the atmosphere was very fun and busy. There were 2 private security people on the block and no loitering or trouble. I wonder if the security people are there for the IBMA stage or are they permanent. I think security people will clean things up quickly. If word gets around that if you cause trouble downtown you’ll get arrested then that should reduce the problem at least somewhat.
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Hi all. The discussion has been great and it’s fantastic that we’re chiming in with our own perspectives. Two major things I want to point out.
- It really does read like some are commenting without having watched the SVH Committee meeting. I recommend you watch (or even just listen) to it at 1.5x speed. Video is here.
- I think a review of the timeline of events is needed here. Please correct me if I am wrong but here’s how things seem to have been going.
Excluding Glenwood South here (or at least in this thread) around Moore Square and the GoRaleigh Station:
- Leading up to Summer 2023, an increase in activities have made folks feel unsafe.
- It has affected bus riders at the station as well as business owners in the area.
- Recently (as in weeks ago) the police increased security in the area.
- This increase is helping the situation and the business owners support this.
- However, the police department is at capacity and cannot sustain this level of support for Moore Square and GoRaleigh Station.
- The business owners are asking the councilors to increase the support (ahem, more $$$$) in next year’s budget to both recruit and retain officers.
- They see this as the solution which this committee will discuss.
So that’s where we are. Things actually are better but it may not last. Please critique my timeline here and I’ll update it. I want to make sure we’re getting this discussion right.
Finally, let’s make sure we are clear that we are talking about small hotspots of issues. GoRaleigh Station, Moore Square, and Glenwood South have had an increase in issues and the city is addressing it. Let’s try and not let this paint our entire downtown as a hotspot of crime. That would be devastating for us right now.
Alright, just wanted to post that to level-set some things on this topic. 
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While I agree with you here (not agree, per se, you’re just objectively correct) - this is how it’s being painted across various media outlets, internet discourse, etc. Hence my unwillingness to get as bent out of shape by all of this as others have!
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Thanks for the nudge to watch the report. That was insightful and really helps to understand the breadth of the issue at hand.
Regarding Moore square area in particular, I really believe a lack of residential density is a big part of the issue. If there were 1,000 new residents within a quarter mile of Moore Square, there would be many more eyes on the street throughout the day and night and the square would be activated by residents regularly. This would create a safety in numbers effect, and it would also provide more “support” for the unhoused/deranged in the area.
Many will disagree with me here, and I’m not saying this is the solution, but many hands make light work. If there are 40 unhoused people regularly circulating the Moore square area, and they are interacting with 700 daily visitors, the odds of an encounter to each visitor is higher than if those same 40 people were panhandling/interacting with 1,500 daily visitors. And I believe each encounter would be less tense. The unhoused/deranged would feel less desperate, as being surrounded by people (some of which are willing to hand out a dollar or food) creates a sense of belonging, even if their objective situation is no better off at the end of the day. We are all emotional creatures, and you can imagine the difference of interacting with hundreds of people per day vs just a few dozen. This is why I try to have a quick conversation with anyone in that situation even if I have nothing physical to give them. A smile and acknowledgement goes a long way, and residential density would help bring more of that to the area.
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2019 - The City invested $13 Million in taxpayer dollars for a park that is a complete shit show 4 years later….W T F
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Truth serum here…I actually liked the square before they (we???) spent the money on the redux and there’s no guarantee these same things wouldn’t still be happening if we’d left it alone.
Let’s focus on the fix, not on the bitch…?
Any thoughts on solutions ?
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Exactly. The Square’s new design isn’t a factor in the rise in crime nearby. It’s something else that needs to be addressed.
I also bet I can find a stabbing incident that happened recently in a more remote part of the city but WRAL didn’t pick it up. Wonder why.
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The park itself is great. Blaming the city and the money they spent on this park is asinine. Nobody saw this coming, the homeless problem and crime has changed after covid. If we want to blame the city, then blame them for free bus ridership…that needs to end.
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In order to attract more developers to the areas that need dense housing, you have to have more attractions. Annual and weekly events, festivals, multiple entertainment options (movie theaters, arcades, etc).
I just walked through there at Sunset and there were several police vehicles parked with blue lights running and a good chunk of road yellow-taped off. That must have been where it happened.
I didn’t feel unsafe. There weren’t many folks around.
It apparently happened in the crosswalk between Moore Square and the bus station
The mid-park crosswalk, or at the corner? The mid block was fully taped off.
Because people know to avoid those areas. Transit hubs and centrally located parks that have tons of taxpayer money invested in them shouldn’t be places to avoid.
Meanwhile, this isn’t just the city being a city, and all the little scaredy cat suburban people need to get a reality check or move back. This is the exact kind of thing that makes people say nope to downtown and businesses leave. At this point I’d be happy to pay more taxes to have a cop on every corner downtown.
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The one directly in the middle of the block. Near the area where buses park in the bike lane.
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Stop feeding the homeless there
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Stop feeding the homeless there
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Stop feeding the homeless there
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Lock down the transit center with police & barrier access (ticketed passengers only)
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Moore Square area has become an absolute cluster F. I’ve tried to support the area and quite frequently went to local bars, restaurants, and the Pour House.
It’s not a place I want to go out with my wife or friends. Was at The Davie when all the BS happened today with the stabbing incident. While this was going on we were watching a group actively steal from DGX. Moore Square and the bus terminal has gotten out of hand and the City of Raleigh is aware that they are about to lose the area. Once businesses leave - it’s hard to get anything else back in for a long time. They have to act swiftly and make the hard decisions to limit access to those that are making this area undesirable.
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I would assume for the viewers. Fewer people are interested in the crime that happens in remote parts of the city. With more people working downtown or even considering visiting, then it becomes more interesting because it “affects” them a bit more. I don’t like how WRAL paints it because it makes it seem like someone is randomly going around randomly stabbing people, when it’s probably not the case.
I’d be interested to hear the story about the stabbing and what led to it. On that note, does anyone know any additional information about the case with the killing of David Millette from Midwood Smokehouse? I would like to know the details about what led up to that as well.
On a different note, I’m actually confused about what the goal is with the conversation about Moore Square. One on end, we are talking about crime; On another, I see mentions about homeless. Being homeless isn’t a crime so I don’t think that should be lumped into a topic about crime. I can see it being part of a discussion in which the city is trying to make Moore Square an upscale place or if it’s trying to give Raleigh a good look for visitors. If the topic is about trying to get people to go to Moore Square that typically avoid it, then that’s another topic as well. It would also be a different story if we’re trying to generally increase foot traffic.
I think too many different topics are getting lumped into the one issue of crime.
Do you know what happened in the incident? I’m curious. I’m also not sure what ever happened from the stabbing in the area from last month either. There always seems to be very little follow up.
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Not sure of any details around the stabbing incident other than what was posted on WRAL. We saw the aftermath of yellow tape, police, and helicopter in the area as we had a beer and left because my wife (and I TBH) got sketched out and didn’t feel comfortable.
It feels like the goal of the conversation talking about crime and homelessness is to illustrate a very obvious picture of why a $13 million park renovation flopped when it should have been a desirable location for residents and visitors to enjoy/ spend money without being accosted, stabbed, or yelled at. Instead it’s an open wound for the city that’s only festering and seems to be spreading into other areas. It’s all, understandably, frustrating and we should be honest and transparent on the less than desirable reason for folks and businesses wanting a change. My concern is that we have pushed the idea of alternative transportation methods and offering free bus service that’s bringing in folks who are not there to support the city, spend money at businesses, or contribute to the vitality of the area.
Instead we are using buses to bring in crime, drugs, and loitering and if we are not very careful, the warehouse district will be the same once RUSbus is open.
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It’s time Raleigh invested in transit police other cities have it. Should fare-free buses end maybe the economy is doing fine now. Guard the terminals and major transfer areas.
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Should we block free roads and free sidewalks too? Since they are also bringing in folks who are not there to support the city?
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