Part of living in a city involves interacting with people who aren’t in the same socioeconomic tier as you.
The Rescue Mission has to go somewhere downtown, and if it is moved the NIMBY response will be even worse from whoever’s getting it than it is from folks who are already used to having it where it is. I think there’s some good argument to be made that the Moore Square bus station is a hindrance to pedestrians the way it’s currently laid out and probably should be moved to more of a utilitarian location in downtown.
As this update encompasses Moore Square + City Market, and the RFPs were called ‘Moore Square South’ and ‘Moore Square East’, I’ll make this update here:
Finally, movement today.
City is moving forward with negotiations, and we are very close based on the latest council meeting. If you’d like to watch it yourself, feel free to here:
Brief breakdown:
Loden was able to negotiate for the vast majority of this block. There is one holdout. The will be able to acquire the House of Art (Mary Black seemed a bit bummed about that), the Raleigh Rescue, and the old pest control place. They’ll have the entire frontage that faces Moore Square on that block.
The Moore Square visitor center (The Norwood House) is moving to the front of the transit center to the side of Watts and Ward. Here’s how it will be positioned. Personal opinion: this spot is kind of weird at the moment. The Norwood House would look great here.
The old farmer’s market will be transitioned into an openglass Artspace viewing center. They’ll also be purchasing more parking spaces alongside city market to turn into retail. Here’s how the space will look.. I’ll add that, it wasn’t mentioned, but it looks like they’ve removed the karaoke component (previous view for reference). I was looking forward to that, but nothing was mentioned about it.
Negotiating shouldn’t be too hard same for the Omni city manager looks like a good negotiation would the city have to approve the developer? Or have they done that?
I can’t think of a better way to plan a hotel to fail than to put it in a crime ridden area right next to a homeless shelter. I don’t know about you but I love seeing police tape and being begged (aggressively) for money right when I walk out of my hotel in the morning.
Ok, this is just too much. I’ve been going on walks with my wife and 2 year old daughter in downtown Raleigh at least once a week since she was born - at all times of the day. I just don’t see the Moore Square situation being as dire as people are making it out to be. The other night AFTER DARK we all had dinner at Vic’s, a walk through Moore Square, and Gelato at Amorino. Everything was fine, we didn’t get stabbed, a bum asked us for money, I gave him a fiver, we had a good time.
Do I think there are issues that can be improved upon - sure. Do I think its a “crime ridden area” to be avoided at all costs - no. Everyone take a breath.
Based on my experiences with moore there does seem to be a bit of sensationalism around the crime it gets. I’ve been out to dinner around there many times with family and gone to different events at the park on my own and haven’t seen anything more than one or two homeless going up to people. Frankly, I’d feel far more unsafe in Glenwood South or even along capital blvd going north than walking through Moore.
I was being a bit facetious but it’s not far off. Business owners are telling us their patrons don’t feel safe and there’s been 2 stabbings in just a few weeks there. Even you were panhandled with your 2 year old son. That’s a problem. I’m not arguing this doesn’t happen in other cities but if I’m looking to stay at a hotel downtown…this would be the last one on my list.
Fine, if you want to avoid being panhandled - stay out of downtown. That’s the most effective and tailored solution, just for you, that I can think of because moving the Rescue Mission and Bus Station is insane so is suggesting that its a bad idea to build a hotel in the area. As for me and my 2 year old *daughter, it’s not a problem if someone wants to ask us for money. If I have cash, I will even give it them.
If it was just a panhandling problem, ok, but you avoided the fact there’s been 2 stabbings there as well. I’ll choose to visit other areas with my 2 *daughters.
BTW I missed where you said daughter the first time. My apologies
I think you were being sarcastic, but for a LOT of people, that is the answer, and that is why the downtown business owners are worried.
Raleigh is an overwhelmingly suburban place. In 90% of places people shop, dine, etc they don’t have to worry about being panhandled. If you knew someone would just ask for money and be agreeable no matter what you said, maybe it wouldn’t be a huge deal, but a lot of people feel threatened by it. Maybe they don’t want to give money, and they are concerned how the person will react if they say no.
A lot of people will just choose to spend their money elsewhere. And that is on top of the fact that a lot of people don’t want to walk more than a block to their destination in the first place, and are already “iffy” on coming downtown. Downtown Raleigh does not have enough residents to support itself. It needs people to come downtown, and most people won’t go if they feel unsafe. A fair number won’t come if they panhandled. If we want DTR to succeed, the issue needs to be addressed, and we can’t just wish people would have a higher tolerance for it.
But there you can just roll up your windows and lock your doors if you feel unsafe. You don’t even have to interact with them if you choose not to. But when you are walking downtown and are approached and hassled, there’s nowhere to go. I would feel a little defensive if I had my daughters with me, not sure how you couldn’t.
That is true, and people don’t like seeing that. But if you are sealed in your metal car with locks on the doors and windows you can roll up, you also don’t generally feel threatened the same way you do if someone walks up to you and can reach out and touch you.
This project moving forward will benefit the vibrancy and safety of the area through more residents, more eyes, more activations…such a big win - kudos to Loden, LFGoooooo!!!
You literally just explained the sentence before what to do if you are walking downtown and are approached… literally just keep walking and say nothing. This is what I do 99% of the time, the other 1% I might say “Sorry man” if I’m in a nice mood, all while continuing to walk and go about my business. No one is owed a response nor your attention, and the fact you feel like you have no choice but to stop and have a discussion with someone begging for money is hilarious to me. Bobby… just keep walking lmao. It’s so much simpler than you’re (desperately) making it out to be. If they “reach out and touch you” per @Street_Grid - f%#king “touch” them back with your closed fist. In all likelihood, however, that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, so RELAX y’all hahahahahahahaha jeeeeeezus has this entire forum been overtaken by gullible 70 year olds???
No I just wish these suburban people had the same level of fear and concern for their personal safety as it relates to road violence and fatal auto accidents as they do for getting chibbed by a panhandler in Moore Square. You are more likely to get permanently mangled in a horrible car crash while driving from your Preston HOA to the Posh Picnic at Fenton. I find this whole debate silly and irrational.
LOL good lord you sound like you’ve never really had an interaction with a panhandler before. hahahahahahaha. Yea, you just ignore the wrong one and you’re gonna have a bigger problem on your hands. I’ve politely turned one down before walking downtown in another city and when we passed him on the other side of the block, he gave me a shoulder bump and it almost escalated quickly. I choose not to subject my family to that. To each his own I guess.
And again…if this was just isolated panhandling, that would be one thing, but everyone seems to be ignoring the violent crime and drugs that are happening in this area as well.
