Pretty much in the same boat. I say no and go on about my way. I’ll add that this experience, for me, has helped my own personal growth because it really teaches you how to say “No.”
If I want to help the homeless, I’ll donate to the Raleigh Rescue. I don’t keep cash on me and I’m not going to spend 10 minutes of my time buying them something at DGX or a food joint.
Many people struggle with saying no, and I think that’s why so many are so uncomfortable. The homeless issue and the crime issue are two different problems. There really isn’t a reason to feel unsafe around a run-of-the-mill homeless person. Uncomfortable? Sure. But unsafe? Absolutely not.
I agree with you about auto accidents. The armored tanks that many people drive around in these days are ridiculous and IMO pedestrian safety should be a more important consideration in allowing cars on the road.
But to find the discussion of panhandling and safety in Downtown “silly and irrational” is not going to help. There have been multiple high profile events in recent months where people have been seriously hurt or even killed. I think for a lot of people, they worry about panhandling b/c they worry that if they say no it will escalate.
People have choices in where they spend their time and money. Maybe the number of incidents is amplified b/c of press coverage and people worrying about it, but there are real concerns, and if they are not addressed it will result in a less vibrant downtown.
I’d actually like to counter that and say you’re the one who seems to have less experience with panhandlers. If you really think you’ve got nowhere to go, then that speaks to your experience of dealing with the situation, not his.
When I walk in the evenings, and more and more of that is now in the dark with the shorter days, I do so without my wallet and just my phone and keys. I truly have no money to give to people if they asked.
That said, and while I admire people who are compassionate and are willing to share money with those who beg, it does teach them to keep panhandling instead of seeking out help from Raleigh Rescue, etc. People beg/panhandle because they get results. I agree that giving to organizations that help people, and supporting them through how we vote for our elected officials is likely the better way to make a difference.
I hate that the media doesn’t report what caused any of these incidents. I could be wrong, but I imagine a lot of these started over fights, drugs, and disagreements.
Hate how the media leaves these events vague of info, leaving other people to panic and live their life in fear. Again I could be wrong. But I’d say the majority of these incidents weren’t just random bystanders getting attacked.
I do the same as well, I don’t carry my wallet, mainly since I can pay with my phone at most places. That being said, I am more than happy to order food when asked directly but do not hand out cash.
As others have already stated, the issue of crime is separate from homelessness, and the idea of separating the transit center from the rescue mission with the sole goal of preventing poor people from accessing affordable transportation is frankly sickening.
Close it off to traffic, let food/vendor stalls open up, and create a community area with tables in the middle. It could be a good start-up concept option for businesses that’s cost-effective. It would activate the area and also give an open-air market vibe like many other cities, and it’s covered for when it rains.
I realize transit is an important resource. I am not fully up to date, but maybe bus services could be moved to Union Station as that expansion project is completed so there is no gap for riders?
Closing the bus station down and setting up a market probably won’t be a possibility until GoRaleigh outgrows this station and has to move elsewhere. RUS Bus will be a smaller facility and is supposed to handle only GoTriangle buses, so no chance of just picking up all bus operations at GoR station and moving them over there.
I do like the idea of getting some restaurants internal to the station, as is the case at Charlotte Transportation Center. Maybe some food stands could be set up near the Blount St entrance with covered outdoor seating, but I hear that the Moore square visitors center will be going there.
While I get the idea here, lately this language is kind of starting to bother me. It feels like talking about training animals instead of interacting with people. Not meaning to pick on you with this quote, it’s kind of woven throughout this thread.
A lot of talk and advice about how to interact with homeless people sounds like trying to enforce a societal regime of how to manipulate their behavior as if they were an unpleasant phenomena, like packs of wild dogs or spotted lanternflies. It sounds like the advice you get if you encounter a bear on a hike.
While this is not in Moore Square, I have a story about panhandling in Glenwood South. I came out of the Xoco Mexican restaurant (now Pine State Public House) with just a huge pile of leftovers when neither my colleague nor I couldn’t even begin to eat our main dishes after stuffing ourselves on chips/salsa and appetizers. The woman panhandling us, who saw us with these clamshells, said that she was hungry so we gladly gave her all of our food (and it was a lot). She angrily pushed it back at us and told us that she didn’t want the food: she wanted money. In other words, she sure didn’t seem to want money for food. She clearly wanted it for something else and being hungry was just how she was going to get money from us.
After that episode, and after talking to people who are professionals in the caring industry who advised my against giving money to panhandlers, I no longer offer money. In fact, professionals have told me to not give money because it teaches them to keep panhandling. If you see that as a training an animal, so be it. I’m not the professional here. I am only relaying what I have been told by professionals.
On occasion, when I am in line for fast food, and I’ve seen someone who’s obviously struggling and counting pennies and nickles to buy some food, I will pick up their lunch for them. So, I am not a monster or anything like that.
Yeah, I don’t doubt that happens, in fact I imagine most people have a similar experience, myself included.
What I’ve heard from social workers is indeed to avoid giving cash, but I don’t think it was framed the same way, which is what I’m talking about. It’s not about training behavior so much as just acknowledging that if someone is really going after cash, it probably won’t be used well. You may be culpable in feeding addiction. There’s definitely an ethical weight to that choice.
Framing may seem inconsequential. What’s the difference between not giving money to try to train that person’s behavior, versus not giving money to avoid an ethical problem which inevitably trains their behavior if done en masse?
I’d say the difference is in your own motivation, and how the framing subtly affects the way you see your neighbors in need. I think we can arrive at the same practical outcome (not giving cash) with a very different effect on our own outlook and perspective on our fellow humans.
I’ve had that experience as well, multiple times, but I also have a really great story.
My wife and I once ate at Capital Club 16 and brought home leftovers. We parked on Fayetteville st., and as we returned to the car a presumably homeless person said, “Can I ask you a question? …I’m hungry…”. And I did what I always do if I have food in my hand; I said, “Well, we just left this restaurant up the street that has great food, and it’s still fresh right here. Do you want some?”. In this case, he said yes, and we opened the box up right there on Martin st. and he scarfed it down. He was so happy to be eating, it brought literal tears of joy to me. I think I took a bite and shared in fellowship with him. We hugged, I wished him a blessed night, and we parted ways.
On a very different note, I recently had a young, clean-appearing man come up to my wife and I while sitting on a bench on Fayetteville street asking for money, before the sun had set. I had a sip-n-stroll beer, which was some terrible hoppy pilsner, and I offered it up instead of money (self-serving - I was ready to dump it). Without hesitation he grabbed it, said thanks, and walked away. We then watched him chug the entire thing and throw the cup in the recycling bin…
Obviously the first guy’s motivation was legitimately hunger.
The second, obviously alcohol craving.
I think we are seeing more people of the latter, which is where unfortunately law enforcement has to get involved.
I’m with Grant; people are people, and on average treating them as a human being is how you don’t get stabbed.
FWIW, and despite any presumptions of why I did what I did, and what my motivation was, I treated the woman with the same sort of respect that you describe. We were thrilled to give her food when she told us she was hungry. She was just plain nasty about our offer because she really didn’t want food.
One last time and I’m letting it go. I was told to not give money because it teaches them to keep panhandling. Those are NOT my words. They were words that were told to me by a professional. Nobody’s being treated like a dog.
Hey - I think both you and @grant both make some valid points and by all accounts from both of your comment history seem like good dudes. I don’t think you’re saying anything with malice, but I can also understand Grant’s desire to frame the conversation differently. I just wanted to chime in and say I appreciate the discussion and the respectful nature of your “debate” if you can even call it that - but I also do believe you’re both coming from the same place of good nature.
@evan.j.bost to stem from your comment, and to counter my previous (way previous) story about being threatened with a shiv (a story which I look back and laugh about honestly) - when I was a little kid visiting Chicago with my family, there was a man begging on the sidewalk. Dude was clearly struggling, and I happened to have an apple with me I brought from the hotel lobby (didn’t not take any bites yet!) so I walked up to him and offered it, and holy shit his face lit up- like eyes bulged out of his head, suddenly grinning from ear to ear as he grabbed the apple and started shouting “Thank you thank you!!! god bless you, thank you!!!” - and that was it, the entire interaction, I ran back to my mom and we went off and did whatever was on the agenda.
But my point in sharing is to also express how that interaction stuck with me - because the man was clearly, truly hungry and needed that apple - as do many of the struggling folks we see on the streets here in Raleigh, North Carolina. So, no, I don’t offer money when asked, but if I ever have food I will offer it - and if accepted, good, I’m glad I could help. If rejected (yes that has happened to me too!) I will just say “alright then” and keep on walking. It feels good to be able to have made someone’s day like that and actually help them, though, so I try my best to not just be jaded and assume everyone panhandling is simply just looking for booze or drug money.