We can twist this any way we want but giving money does teach them or “train” them to keep asking. It works the same way with holding signs at intersections. The reason they do it over and over is because it works. I work over by the airport and the same normal looking guy stood on the off ramp to airport blvd for 2 years holding a sign. It’s easy money.
I’m torn on this because I do think we’re called to help those in need but it’s nearly impossible to differentiate who actually needs help and who just wants easy money. That’s why the easy thing to do is give food and not money or tell them where to seek help and keep moving. If someone is telling you they’re hungry and you offer food, even if it’s leftovers, and they decline…that should tell you all you need to know. I would be more than willing to help, but I’m not willing to be taken advantage of.
I’ll use the words “we” and “our” since they are more inclusive.
If we don’t have enough integrity to admit our mentality shift in the summer of 2020 is partial to blame for the increase in crime. Then this problem will never really solve itself and will instead keep getting shuffled around to other parts of the city.
Admitting fault is difficult and requires humility, which is why I specifically said eating crow was going to be the more difficult hurdle to clear.
“The crow is a carrion-eater that is presumably repulsive to eat in the same way that being proven wrong might be emotionally hard to swallow”
Sorry for using the terms “you” and “your”. Some took that too personally, I was speaking in generalities.
I don’t think that Moore Square is in a situation that makes it somewhere that I won’t visit, yet. I do however see the problem escalating and it’s not the Moore Square I envisioned when the renovations were happening.
I also have experience as a previous Charlotte resident of watching the build up and complete disaster that was the Epicenter. We used to go to the epicenter and have tons of fun, until the homeless and safety became such an issue that it pushed everyone away leading to the eventual bankrupt and dangerous area it became. Moore Square if not handled is on this path. We don’t have to go to Moore Square as there are other options, just like what happened in Charlotte. If I have to pull myself to go to Moore Square after weighing my Raleigh options, there is an issue. I’m not as concerned about what Moore Square is now, I’m concerned about where we are trending and it’s not looking good. Raleigh has options and with the warehouse, DTS, Fenton, etc Moore Square has to compete much as a business does to stay relevant and bring in ‘customers’ for use. If a reputation gets too strong it will collapse and be the area you don’t go in downtown Raleigh.
You make some really good points. Especially with respect to the other options out there. I go to MS area occasionally so I wouldn’t say I avoid it. However, if I am honest, it feels less inviting than other areas of DTR.
I’ve been following this thread, but there’s way too much information here for me to respond to specific posts. I will add these thoughts:
I appreciate everyone’s comments. I think it’s important to remember that mid/major cities across the country are seeing increased crime and other issues. (The same week our committee discussed these issues I saw Target announced they were closing 3 stores in Portland citing safety issues. The next day, there was looting in Philadelphia; those are just recent examples). In Raleigh, we have unfortunately not been omitted from this trend.
The city is working to address the issues expressed here. I think some of these efforts are already working. Today, I got my haircut at Arrow and they told me they’ve already noticed an improvement (they were previously dealing with folks entering their business and causing problems). When I left, there was an ambassador on the sidewalk and an officer walking/patrolling one block down.
We have a few additional initiatives coming forward for Council action this month, including reintroducing a bit more structure to our fare system to improve transit safety as well as more resources towards mental health and social workers to assist with folks who need help, so police can focus on issues of true public safety.
At our meeting this week, we moved forward initiatives to redevelop a bunch of vacant land around Moore Square to include 2 hotels, affordable housing, a new space for Raleigh Rescue Mission, a grocery store, and more street-facing gallery space for Artspace (with a goal to cultivate an arts district in City Market).
I truly believe the future is bright for downtown Raleigh. We will get these safety issues under control.
Again, I appreciate all the posts here. I’m also always happy to chat, send me an email and we can connect via phone or in person for coffee: Jonathan.Melton@raleighnc.gov
I’ll add one more item. This week in the Raleigh Transit Authority committee meetings, staff told us that they submitted for funding for a new security position. Probably by the end of the year, we’ll have a lead security director for GoRaleigh Station which will then staff up positions to monitor the station and some routes across two, 8-hour shifts.
Just like any challenge/issue that crops up, the city is responding. I’m confident that this will get fixed and that the city hears you!
@JonathanMelton, I appreciate you coming on here and being a voice of reason and not pretending it’s normal and we should just ignore it. It’s certainly not nearly as bad as it is in other cities but they all started somewhere too.
I think you’re reading a different thread or forum. That message didn’t come across for me at all. What I heard was, “we acknowledge the problem, we’re working to improve the situation, we aren’t alone in this challenge”.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. There’s folks on here (not Jonathan) that want to pretend like this is normal because our city is growing. Or did you leave off the “not” in front of that quote on purpose?
This is a great way to raise awareness of issues related to panhandling and support the homeless through constructive/targeted means that let folks give without contributing to a problem. I like it. Raleigh should adopt this method
Something that’d make this sign better is the addition of info on resources for those who might be considering panhandling, that way the sign acknowledges action that can be helpful for both parties.
Perhaps this could be achieved by having one QR code for donations, and one that displays a list of orgs that assist with receiving help (along with an accessible/simple phone number or street address for those more technologically disadvantaged.)
I’d be interested in understanding if these signs made a difference in (meaningful giving) behavior.
It’s one thing to dissaude people from supporting panhandling. I think that’s the easy part.
It’s another to effectively motivate them to, instead, donate the same funds to orgs that need their support in combating the issues.
but tbh, if I saw this sign on a sidewalk, I’m not sure how motivated I’d be to donate outside of if it was already in my heart to do so with an org I was previously familiar with.
For context, in the past, I’ve volunteered for one of the orgs that does outreach at Moore Square, though I’ve recently abstained physical support from that particular endeavor due to disillusionment on how effective the impact is at that location.
I am also a sucker with long heartstrings who’s occasionally given monetary help after using strong character discernment to certain pedestrians who’ve approached me on various sidewalks. (Although I’ve gotten really good at not stopping, not feeling bad for saying no, and declining without explanation over the past few years though.)
I’d be equally curious if the presence of similar signs around Raleigh would deter panhandling or not, though.
I’m still thankful it’s nowhere near as aggressive as the panhandling behavior I’ve witnessed in downtown Durham where people will straight up walk into restaurants and ask.
Staff there seem to be more lax in not proactively asking people to leave their patrons alone, which is… interesting.
I can empathize with/respect people feeling at their wits end and desperate enough to ask mobile pedestrians on the street, but it’s quite uncomfortable to be inside an establishment and be approached. Hard not to feel cornered when you’re biting into a sandwich you just bought and claim you can’t help someone.
For quick reference, a lot of this from ‘Raleigh is Growing’ is quite old. Many of the pictures and screenshots show land and use from the original RFP. I commented a bit on this in their latest update in my post 2 weeks ago:
For shorter reference, they’ve been able to acquire additional parcels in the Moore Square East and South space, leading to them almost having the entire block:
correct. Total misreading of your message and I’m going back in for another cup of coffee.
