Amazon
and people stopped going to malls.
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2nd class malls are dying all over the country. It was inevitable. Look at the Cary mall, but at least they have some great redevelopment plans that seem to be realistic.
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Renamed the thread. Letâs just open it up to all mall conversations in the area.
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I would say, mall owners without the vision and finances to back-up the required changes?
I do not live near a mall or even big stores other than Walmart, which I believe has done more damage than Amazon. Yes I buy on Amazon 1) can not find item locally, or 2) lot cheaper, or 3) do not have to run all over town trying to find a store with what Iâm looking for in stock.
I also when go to the âBIG CITYâ as Andy says, I often go to malls and look around at the specialty stores that have interesting items. Also on summer/winter day a good place to go to cool off/warm up and people watch 
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I remember when the mall was being pitched and they were quoting all of the high income households within a 3 mile radius (or something like that). Unfortunately, they were mainly assuming that these households that were mainly west of the mallâs location would come to Capital boulevard to shop instead of going to Crabtree. They then buried the mall behind strip centers facing Capital, and pushed it visually away from 540: creating terrible visibility to its existence This is all in addition to the not-so-stellar âbrandâ that Capital Blvd has in that Mini-City area, and itâs not hard to see why it gets so little love.
If Crabtree was smart, theyâd start courting Saks NOW.
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@John, you are spot on. My parents live off Falls / 540 and still go to Crabtree. Crabtree did a better job keeping up with trends. It didnât help TTC for SouthPoint to open in the same timeframe. Ingress / Egress at TTC is confusing and awkward. I may be the lone soldier to say this, but when I go to Crabtree I donât see traffic that bad (weekends).
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I think that Saks owns their building, but I am not 100% sure.
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My parents lived in that same Falls/540 area. When the mall opened, they would go to there occasionally due to the proximity. When my dad passed, my mother wouldnât go there alone. She didnât feel safe, and our good friend âNextdoorâ didnât help that situation.
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I actually never been to Triangle Town Center mall, I try extremely hard to avoid Capital Blvd as much as possible, sad to hear about it being in so much trouble. TTC should try to do what Kane has done to North HillsâŚbut on a smaller scale,. I like going to Crabtree mall on weekends when Iâm not in a rush and leave the Car at Home, riding the No.# 6 bus, on some days traffic is Ok and other times its a nightmare.
I think that mall management contributed greatly to both malls failing. Both Cary Town Center and TTC are owned and managed by CBL Properties.
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I agree completely! Triangle is a beautiful mall but wasnât/isnât being properly managed
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The sad thing is that Triangle Mall is actually newer than Crabtree and more spread out. It has a medium sized strip mall and park beside the main building
Iâve been here 8 years and have never set foot in TTC. Been to CTC once for a party my daughter had at Dave and Busters. Been to Crabtree maybe 2-3 times. North Hills I go more often just because Iâm close. But itâs usually just to target. Plus itâs not a traditional âmallâ anymore.
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Triangle Town Center opened up right around the same time as the Streets at Southpoint. At that time there was a lot of debate about whether or not this area would be able to carry three regional malls. I think we have our answer. It seems to me that Crabtree Valley has really tried to completely stay ahead of the game. Theyâve had several major renovation since theyâve been open. Triangle Town Center also has a terrible traffic pattern coming into it. That pattern becomes much more obvious when the mall is crowded during the Christmas season. My wife and I refer to it as the toilet bowl. It seems that your car just goes around and around the rim until it finally has a chance to dip down. It seems to me that people are finally beginning to appreciate the idea of retail centers being walkable, diverse, and authentic. I hope that downtown Raleigh can become that kind of destination.
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As far as suburban malls go, TTC was the last of a dying breed. Itâs bones are still fine, but thereâs just no market for it anymore. Being separated from Capital and 540 doesnât help itâs visibility, but I do think a lot of people view it as âdown-market.â Some of that is for good reason, but I also think a lot of people have a perception about the âclienteleâ at TTCâŚyou know what I mean. And while I find that attitude to be unfortunate, I am sure that it contributes to TTCâs lack of success. For me, I donât go to malls that often, but sometimes Iâll check out TTC just to avoid the traffic and parking headaches at Crabtree.
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In the broader scheme of things, this fits the narrative about Americaâs Malls dying away.
âŚas long as you define âAmericaâs Mallsâ as the isolated, self-contained, inward-facing row of stores that you have to drive in and out of. TTC, Cary Towne Center to a degree, Northgate in Durham⌠yâall know the more obvious examples.
But I wonder if Crabtree, Southpoint etc. also counts? Theyâre keeping themselves alive by breaking from that traditional image: Southpoint by being more walkable and having supporting facilities like houses and grocery stores to create a livable community, and Crabtree with their office and other full-service commercial district. Theyâre still alive and apparently on a good trajectory to not meet their immediate demise, but theyâre also not exactly a traditional mall anymore.
Maybe malls in America are dying, after all. But it doesnât have to mean the buildings will be left for dead.
Itâs race; thereâs a more-than-insignificant number of people who are concerned or on edge by the presence of a significant number of black people (and other people of color). If itâs not tongue-in-cheek, you might as well just make it clear so we can be thorough with the conversation.
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That is what I had understood, that Saks owns its own square footage similar to JC Pennyâs at NH. Seems like JCP lucked out with their ownership at NH and Saks got screwed with theirs at TTC.
I asked an associate at Saks why they would not move down to crabtree and she said they were stuck since they owned their âbuilding.â
Iâm not much of a shopper or mall person but I do very much appreciate that I can get to Crabtree by bike via the greenway - I would think / hope that the upcoming redevelopment works to enhance and further develop that sort of non- automotive connectivity to the community.
The malls were originally all about the car - perhaps with its somewhat central location Crabtree can create the infrastructure necessary for more non-car access.
With that said I think North Hills could also do a better job with non-automotive connections.
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I have been tracking something related for a while now. Like I mentioned before, itâs the 2nd class malls that are struggling because retail is getting killed right now and has been for the past few years. Class A malls (with sales per square foot over $500) are down also, but the brands that are usually in these are much stronger, more resilient, and with better overall financials. The retail stores with better demand are getting more selective in which malls they open in. And people are getting more selective in which malls they visit.
I saw a stat recently that the US has 5 times the retail space per person than any European Country, and more than twice that of Canada and Australia, who are also going through their own retail apocalypses. The market is simply correcting itself. Yes, the fact that TTC was badly run was the reason why this was sped up, but it was inevitably going to be the case anyway. Theres a major correction going on now and we are in the middle of it.
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