I think by that time downtown and DS will be connected
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Well hopefully it will be
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You part on pro teams fits my agenda!!!
Well, that right there is the argument that should be ongoing about using state/county funds for a soccer stadium.
MLS in Raleigh?
MLS chose Charlotte. Could they expand again? Yes. However, they would not cannibalize their newest franchise with another in-state team with 10 other cities vying for MLS expansion teams. So yeah, Raleigh could get an MLS team one day, but itâs not happening in the near future.
Soccer stadium without MLS
This is where it gets kind of muddy with the wording and selling by Malik and co. Thereâs no doubt about it, they would LOVE to move NCFC and The Courage downtown on the state/countyâs dime.
If you were Malik, why wouldnât you want that? No one is faulting him for pushing for it, but the point is, as residents, and taxpayers we should educate ourselves on what exactly we are getting, what we are giving up, and what value the people and the city will get from it. At the end of the day, the residents and the city/state need to look at ROI for putting up stadium money, to basically relocate an existing team that is about on average (attendance-wise) for their respective leagues.
Usage: NCFC + Courage + What else?
When I say ROI, what I mean is how often are you going to be able to fill this stadium? You want to have guaranteed tenants that take up a majority of the dates, and then you can have your sales team do their best to fill it up when itâs not being used.
Think about the PNC. That arena was built with Hurricanes and NC State basketball as guaranteed tenants. Hockey has 41 home games and NCAA basketball usually has at least 15 home games (the arena sits almost 20k). So thatâs 56 guaranteed dates. And then because itâs a fully enclosed arena, they have a contract with Live Nation to bring a few concerts a month, some diney on ice stuff, monster truck shows, the circus, etc. That is why arenas are such great investments. They have so many uses.
Open-air soccer stadiums? Well, not so much.
If we built a soccer stadium, would we build it for future use, to seat 20k like most MLS stadiums do? And if we do that, what if we never get MLS?
Or do we build it to fit it guaranteed tenants in NCFC and The Courage. Both of whom average about 5k fans per game. Sure, downtown would increase their attendance, so do you build a 10k seat stadium for them? And if you do that, is that really worth the tax money? These teams play a combined 30 home games per season.
How do you fill it the rest of the time? Letâs look around the nation. How are MLS stadiums being filled outside of soccer? THe answer is, they really arenât. There is the occasional concert, but no MLS stadium is getting consistent usage outside of MLS.
Why is that and could Raleigh do it differently?
The answer is, because itâs risky. The stadium is open-air and weather is unpredictable. Moving large temporary stages on to fields is expensive, and ruins the turf. To add to that, Raleigh is not in need of a concert venue. We have PNC Arena for large acts. We have Walnut Creek (or whatever its called now) for a permanent large outdoor concert experience, and we have Red Hat Amphitheater for the smaller, mainstream acts. Sure, Red Hat will be gone in the next decade, but that is when they propose to have the Dix park amphitheater completed. Add in DPAC in Durham and Koka Booth in Cary, and the Triangle is in no way lacking concert space.
So who is going to fill this stadium? This question needs to be answered IMO, before the public and the city can make a educated decision on whether or not they want tax money to fund this.
MLB in Raleigh?
That brings us to MLB. We were excited to see the rezoning because it opens the door. As stated, the stadium is a âdown the roadâ thing and most perceive âstadiumâ to mean the proposed soccer stadium. But with a massive developer like Kane and land zoned for a stadium close to downtown, in a market viable for MLB, with MLB potentially looking to expandâŚ
All it would take is an investment group from anywhere (doesnât need to be local) to approach Kane about that âstadiumâ housing an MLB team that they want to bring to Raleigh.
Do you really think Kane balks at that? Even with Malik in the mix, Iâd say the answer would be no and I believe Malik would then work on ways to house NCFC/ The Courage in that baseball stadium. I know Iâve shared this multiple times, but Iâve done so because itâs an important and really unarguable fact that despite the perception, MLB is a stadium filler. People go to games, and games are played often.
With the developer, the land and a city that seems to be ready for pro sports, Raleigh is now in a very good position to attract an MLB investment group. Portland and Nashville both have groups, but neither have land zoned for a stadium (which is the hardest part).
The dominoes have fallen like we were hoping they would and while itâs likely still a long shot for Raleigh to land an MLB team, the groundwork has never been more prepared than it is right now.
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This is the most well-constructed argument from any side that Iâve seen so far in the debate over the Downtown South stadium. Very well done, bravo.
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I just donât see a soccer stadium being combined with a baseball stadium. The fields are too different. It didnât work for football & baseball (I think the old Oakland coliseum was the last of the combined stadiums). And a soccer field is bigger then a football field, so it would be even more challenging. Maybe there is an example out there somewhere of where this has worked, but I would be surprised.
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High Point & Gastonia stadiums are both new & they are built for minor league baseball , minor league soccer , & football . Their soccer nets are in right field & the 3rd base area . You have to have artificial turf
because of same day games with soccer & baseball plus the season wear & tear . If you are interested , google both High Point & Gastonia Stadiums to see their fields .
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If youâre talking MLS, then yeah itâs not ideal (but not unprecedented). But above I was referring to that being a possibility if Malik wanted to bring NCFC and The Courage over to play in the baseball stadium.
In that case, itâs happening a fair bit. In fact, 7 of the 32 USL teams play in baseball parks. ( El Paso, Las Vegas, Memphis, New Mexico, Tampa, Tacoma, Tulsa). And its not like those teams did any worse in attendance. In fact, they thrived. In order, they ranked 1, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11 in USL attendance.
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The stadium WILL be a soccer stadiumâŚperiodâŚend of discussion.
Will it be âmulti-purpose?â YESâŚBUT it will be a dedicated soccer facility for the NCFC men & womenâs teams as primary tenantsâŚwith a longer term strategy to upgrade to MLS (5 years or less).
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This is what Iâve been saying my man!!! You got it down @Loup20 this could be a soldier field situation thank you shot it down 
. This is what Iâve been saying this stadium can atttact a pro-team, by why should it just be for a minor league team!!! This stadium is upgradable to major league!!!
Look at Yankee Stadium itâs shred for the New York Yankees (MLB) Major League Baseball And New York City FC (MLS) Major League Soccer!!!
I know you want that to be the case, but I donât think you can say that with complete confidence.
The only way that statement is true is if Malik is going to pay for it himself and Kane is going to be ok with having his DT South anchor be NCFC and The Courage for 30 nights a year. Maybe he will, but that doesnât sound like a decision that a profit motivated developer the size of Kane would make.
Without an MLS commitment (and that just isnât happening anytime soon), itâs very unlikely you are going to get people to vote for a tax increase and itâs looking like the tourism tax money is spoken for, at least for the near future So again, unless you have some inside information that Malik is going fund the stadium himself (and I donâ think he has the money to), then I think your chance of getting a soccer stadium is as good as getting an MLB stadium, and neither are as good as the chances of getting no stadiumâŚwhich is the likely outcome.
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I will reiterate my previous statement:
The stadium WILL be a soccer stadiumâŚperiod.
Thank you for exposing your arguments 
.
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Probably the only thing that changes the soccer stadium to a baseball stadium is a billionaire stepping in and jumping into the deal, even if the MLB is more probable than the MLS at the moment.
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Youâre right. Without that ownership group nothing happens. But it makes no sense for Kane not to kick the tires on that. MLB is said to have a list of people looking to invest if the opportunity is right
Does MLB or itâs list of investors know that Kane closed on this land, this close to downtown, zoned for a stadium, in a market viable and in the biggest MLB east coast dead zone? If they knew would wheels start spinning?
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UncleJesse, I donât think these folks understand that you know Mr.Kane personally and you know whatâs going on behind the scenes.
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In this thread, and any other one that involves a stadium or other large public finance, chaotic brawls are the ground. Anything that goes up will eventually come back. I am practicing personal growth in 2021 by being content that I will not change any strongly held opinions. Namaste.
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Iâm so confused about the baseball talk. They proposed and are building a soccer stadium.
Seems strange to suggest they would completely change course after all the effort and specific planning they are putting into their idea.
Dunno who needs to hear this but stadiums are not intended to host baseball and soccer. Yes, those sports share stadiums sometimes but that is a result of lazy planning and minimal effort and almost always done after the fact - never planned that way from the get-go.
Iâm not really a baseball fan, but I guess I wouldnât mind a minor league team and would probably go to a handful of games a year. But yall gonna have to find a different spot. Hijacking another development just cause it has a stadium - that aint it.
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Delusion appears to be a matter of perspective.