Whew, sounds like a lot of work left to do for construction to start next year.
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Yeah, they stated several times they realize this is a very compressed timeline to meet the deadline. One push from City Council or the Planning Commission and they’ll likely miss the deadline.
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Thank God our city council is so good about helping development along
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You can call the architect and ask. Just say you are with such and such plumbing, electrical, whatever pick a trade, and interested in bidding on the job, who are the GC’s that are bidding?
They wouldn’t share anything. I know Zimmer and Kane have bid. Zimmer didn’t make it past the first round. Not sure about Kane.
They haven’t picked an architect or GC yet because there’s not a “they” (developer) picked yet. That’s why construction starting in a year is so tight.
It’s usually a developer/architect/GC partnership. The entire team is picked through the RFP process, so there are multiple design teams bidding. My office decided last-minute not to go after this, so I’ve got no insider knowledge. Am curious to know too.
@dbearhugnc This is a serious question, since you seem to be exceptionally well informed on this stuff: Is, “Sorry, no greenway to Fuquay-Varina” a personal opinion that you would be opposed to such a thing (which is fine, people disagree about stuff), or do you believe there are insuperable obstacles to ever converting that line from rails to trails? I fully understand that Norfolk Southern is currently opposed to such a plan, and they would need to be persuaded to abandon the line before it could ever happen, but at least in theory it could be possible to negotiate a way to do this that sufficiently satisfies their interests.
Also, what’s the story behind the state trying to land a new auto manufacturing facility, and where would this be, and what would then potentially be reactivated?
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@daviddonovan No worries. Not certainly opposed to the idea of a greenway at all. I’ve used them in many times in the past.
Usually when there has been a rail-to-trail conversion, it’s because there has been redundant capacity which has been completely abandoned. There was an abundance of intercity rail service at one time which has been supplanted by the introduction of highways and trucking over the past century.
Durham’s American Tobacco Trail and Belt Line Trail (https://durhamnc.gov/3818/Durham-Belt-Line-Trail) are manifestations of that economy. At one time, Durham had five different tobacco processing companies. And, there were five different railroads which built out to each of them to haul their finished product to market. Of those five, the North Carolina Railroad is still in place in its entirety which is operated as Norfolk Southern’s ‘H’ line.
The northern remnant of the Durham & Southern going down to Apex remains. And part of the Seaboard Air Line’s branch from Henderson by way of Creedmoor is still in place from Joyland to Durham which then connects to the Durham & Southern.
The Norfolk & Western came down to Durham from Virginia by way of Roxboro, and is completely abandoned. It’s loop around downtown Durham is what is being proposed as the Durham Belt Line (https://durhamnc.gov/DocumentCenter/View/25678/Durham_Beltline_Overview_Map?bidId=). The spur from the original Norfolk Southern Railway coming north frin Bonsal was cut off when Shearon Harris Reservoir was created flooding the middle portion of the line. That is the segment which is now the American Tobacco Trail.
The portion of the original Norfolk Southern Railway going from downtown Raleigh to Fuquay and points west was always a single track operation with maybe one passing siding. There had been passenger service along that line until about 1949. The line’s current owner, Norfolk Southern Railroad still has freight business along that line, albeit small. But, enough to have a daily movement along the segment. It is intact to Brickhaven, but that segment hasn’t seen much activity in quite some time and would require a fair amount of work to bring it up to spec.
The reason that Glenwood Yard was downgraded was because of cost. The eastern segment of the original NSRy from Raleigh to Chocowinity hasn’t run through traffic westward for a number of years. That’s why NS leased it to the shortline, Carolina Coastal Railway (reporting mark CLNA). Freight traffic from Fuquay doesn’t generate too many carloads of freight, so Glenwood Yard does more holding than switching.
Historically Norfolk Southern hasn’t been a company which likes to share it’s rights of way. And, it will hold on to inactive lines for awhile until it sees that there is no chance of business coming in to reactivate it. As the NCDOT’s Rail Division is constantly out trying to recruit new business along current and former rail lines, there always is the possibility that some manufacturer will be enticed to start up operations in our state. Automobile assembly is a line of business that they are constantly looking at. So, a line which may have been inactive for years suddenly is brought back.
This has happened in other areas around the country where neighborhoods developed along inactive lines are suddenly notified of the reactivation
So, until it Norfolk Southern completely abandons that segment to Fuquay-Varina and Fayetteville, I don’t see a greenway happening along that corridor.
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Fayetteville wants passenger rail to Raleigh. Could be the route through Fuquay Varina…
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Thanks for the explanation! Yeah, there’s really so much history embedded in our railroads. Each one bears its own really interesting story.
FWIW, I live very close to this line (so I am certainly not a disinterested party here) and can confirm that it does have daily, but rather infrequent movement. That’s part of the reason why I’ve been cautiously optimistic that maybe someday NS could be persuaded to give it up, although I’m certainly realistic about the fact that it is not likely to happen at any point in the very near future.
@TedF I was wondering when that would trickle it’s way into this space. It’s going to be a bit of a challenge to see how that plays out.
The simplest routing would be using the CSX ‘A’ line to Selma Interlocking, then over the NCRR/NS ‘H’ line to Raleigh.
The downside is that there is no turnout at the Selma Interlocking for northbound traffic heading west. There would have to be a crossing of the diamond, cutover to the southbound track, reverse direction, then take westbound turnout in the reverse direction all the way to Raleigh. East to south would be the same issue.
The other option would be to add a turnout from the northbound CSX ‘A’ Line to head east on the NCRR/NS ‘H’ Line at Selma Interlocking. Once there, receive clearance to cross the diamond westbound to access the reactivated SOU platform at Selma Union Station. Then, proceed in reverse to RUS.
As there are no cab control units in the state’s fleet, this service would require a power car on either end. Diesel-multiple units would solve the issue. Looking at the sat-view of Selma Interlocking, a turnout would be possible, but somebody’s house would get taken out in the process.
Secondly would be to use the NSRY’s VF branch from Varina to Fayetteville.
There is a history of daily passenger service on this line as evidenced by a 1937 Steam Timetable. But, the pace was definitely leisurely…
(Raleigh to Fayetteville timetable detail):
But, I’m unsure as to track conditions. The line crosses the CSX ‘A’ line just above Fayetteville Station at CSXT Junction, and the land for a turnout there is available. So, it’s do-able on that end.
The speed restrictions at present track conditions are also limited to 25 mph. But, that’s also a rule set for a multi-axle freight. A regional rail unit is a different critter, but there would likely need to be a lot of testing done during the study interval.
Then, there’s the question as to how one would get to the RUS platforms. There is a turnout from the ‘NS’ line to the ‘H’ line at Boylan, but it goes right into Prison Siding. So, the equipment would have to go down past Cabarrus Street and double back to access the house tracks and platforms at RUS. The same would be for the reverse course.
The third option would be to go from Fayetteville to Dunn on the CSX ‘A’ line, rebuilding the Durham & Southern Railway from Dunn to Apex (while awaiting the praises and curses from those living along the deactivated line in Angier), then hop on the CSX ‘S’ through Cary/Fetner and on to Raleigh.
There. Feasability study complete. I await my consultation fee!!
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Yeah, @keita and I were talking about this on another thread. CAMPO put out an RFP for this back in May, and yes, the NS line is one of two options being considered. It’s the more direct route, but it’s actually slower because it’s a windy track and the trains thus need to go a lot slower. Option A is go diagonally from Fayetteville to Selma to Raleigh. It’s less direct, but it’s straight lines, aside from the turn in Selma, so it would actually be much quicker because the trains could go a lot faster. The complication is that the Selma-Raleigh line is the H line, the same line that’s slated to be used for the proposed Garner-to-Durham commuter rail. Obviously my hope is they pick the route through Selma and just double track the rails all the way to Raleigh, but we’ll see what they do. The study won’t even conclude until June 2020, and then who knows how long it would take before anything actually started happening. But, yes, this is, by far, the most plausible scenario under which you could see passenger trains moving along this line. Commuter rail is just not plausible given the exceptionally low densities along the line, and even regional rail is very unrealistic. But intracity rail from Raleigh to Fayetteville could potentially be viable, I think, it’s just a question of which line makes more sense. We’ll see what the study finds!
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@daviddonovan Yeah, that was the curse for the original Norfolk Southern Railway. Being the latecomer into the game, they had to make their way through terrain that other roads wouldn’t have touched. It’s a twisty line for sure.
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Some good news from Amtrak…
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Some more good news:
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Ha! Train puns. 
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Nice! The North Carolina project is the largest of the 10 projects that were approved and involves up to $77 million for new passenger cars and improvements to a facility in Charlotte.
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NC is a great train state!
(photo from Department Receives Federal Grant for Passenger Rail Upgrades )
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yea, almost twice as much as next highest state (ma). Must be doing something right.
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