As much as we all bemoan the DOT’s focus on more highways and wider roads, their dedication to improving rail infrastructure in the state is certainly something to be commended. Relatively speaking, our rail network is pretty solid, and has enormous potential for expansion.
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@daviddonovan I’ve had the dream of double-tracking the NCRR/NS ‘H’ Line from Selma Interlocking to Boylan for quite some time. Given that it’s 25.5 miles between MP H 109.4 to MP H 80.9, and can take $1M to $2M per mile to add that level of track infrastructure with bridges and crossings (perish the thought that you would try to effect ‘higher speed’ sealing of the corridor), you get the idea of the cost.
The trick would be to do the traffic modeling and see what would need to be done to intermix the Garner to Hillsborough routed trains with the Fayetteville to Raleigh service, non-SEHSR Amtrak runs, NS movements, and any future service from Goldsboro or Wilmington (can’t forget those). Then, there would be a truer picture of the corridor requirement.
Oh, and don’t forget what could happen if the North Carolina Port at Beaufort would suddenly get upgraded in this post-Panamax shipping world with a possible inland port in Selma. Whee!!
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I am on a phone so responding to a long post line by line is tough but somewhere above I saw @dbearhugnc mention that NCDOT has no NPCUs which is not true. They own several de-engined F59s from Toronto that they use to run the Piedmont push-pull these days. They do not reverse in revenue service though, and I hope this time consuming maneuver would not be considered for intercity service from Raleigh to Fayetteville.
As for Raleigh-Fayetteville train service, how about just running some of the commuter trains all the way to Fayetteville. Say three round trips per day. Have the 8am westbound departure from Garner actually originate in Fayetteville at 6:30am or some such scheme. That way they don’t have to mix. There are only three proposed commuter rail stations east of Union Station, so it wouldn’t be a huge slowdown for people coming from Fayetteville. Plus then people from Fayetteville could use it to reach places like NCSU, RTP, and Durham without changing trains.
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Rebuilding the D&S line would be next to impossible on its former right-of-way. Through Holly Springs and Fuquay-Varina, the right of way is pretty well eviscerated by development. A new route along the NC55 bypass might be feasible, especially as NCDOT moves to add grade separations and interchanges to it, but not easy or cheap. I would say it is mostly a lost cause. You’be better off following the A-line to somewhere near Sanford and then building a greenfield alignment to Spring Lake.
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@orulz You got me there on the NPCUs. With the kind of traffic projections one would expect for a relatively short consist, the push-pull set-up used on the Piedmont service didn’t quite enter my brain. I was thinking more along the lines of a railroad control car along the likes of what is used by Amtrak’s Pacific Surfliner:
New Jersey Transit:
or the old Metroliner equipment:
With the State of Good Repair grant coming our way, the current Piedmont fleet is going to become surplus. So, there’s going to be equipment becoming available. And, I suppose it’s conceiveable that some of those units could be refitted as control cars.
Ultimately, I would foresee the Fayetteville-Raleigh service running like some of the branch lines in the UK with diesel-multiple-units:
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@orulz I’m certainly cognizant of the realities of re-building the Apex-to-Dunn segment of the Durham & Southern Railway. CSXT was certainly not thinking that there was any future of banking that right-of-way like they did with the ‘S’ line from Norlina to Petersburg. So, I should have probably have invoked my sarcasm font.
Be that as it may, I’m amazed at the wishful thinking brought up with the Fayetteville-to-Raleigh proposal. Raleigh has a shiny new Union Station with an up-an-coming intra-city rail system which has a real possibility of happening. But, even in the steam era, the service on the original NSRY from Fayetteville did not terminate at the old Raleigh Union Depot on South Dawson. That always started and stopped at their station on North Saunders Street (now Glenwood) and Jones which we now know as Google Fiber.
I’m reminded of the ill-fated ‘EASTRAN’ idea which was floated back in 2002 when everybody was thinking that the Triangle Transit Authority regional rail plan was going to happen. A local official in Knightdale thought that the Eastern District of the NSRy/NS ‘NS’ line could be used with service from Wilson to Raleigh, run the Southern Junction and head out the NCRR/NS ‘H’ line to Goldsboro.
https://www.starnewsonline.com/article/NC/20020820/News/605089932/WM/
It was a local proposal with the idea that all one needed to do was buy some old equipment, hop on some little-used freight trackage, and open a commuter rail service. Needless to say, but the speed restrictions with few passing sidings on the ‘NS’ line really impacted their proposal. And, the idea quietly died.
But, now there is the GoTriangle Express bus service to Wendell, Knightdale, and Zebulon. Fayetteville may find out the same thing.
So, again, here’s my transit proposal. Send me my fee!
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So, are the new rail cars going to be brand-spanking new from the factory or new-er hand me downs (thinking horizon fleet) to replace/augment what we have?
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The GoTriangle service is looking at as many as 24 trains per way each day. If you could extend some of those trips past the planned endpoint at Garner, then trains from outlying destinations including Fayetteville would be able to take advantage of NCRR slots that will already be there for the commuter trains for access to Raleigh and other destinations in the Triangle like NCSU, RDU, RTP, Duke, and Durham.
Some of these extended NCRR commuter trains could turn north on the A line towards Wilson, Rocky Mount, and Greenville; others could continue on the H line towards Goldsboro, Kinston, or New Bern; still others could head south on the A-line toward Fayetteville, turning east on the Wilmington Subdivision toward Wilmington.
Maybe Wilmington-Fayetteville-Raleigh could be 6 round trips per day, while New Bern-Raleigh and Greenville-Raleigh could be 3 each. That’s still only half of the planned trains.
These routes are all listed as “study corridors” in the state rail plan.
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@orulz Cool. There would have to be the turnout from the H line south to the A line at Selma Interlocking. It would be tight, but do-able given the angle of the diamonds there. (And, cheaper than reactivating the D&S)
The Fayetteville-bound run would not be likely stopping at Selma Union Station. Not sure if any of the Goldsboro service would stop at Selma. (Sure, the SOU platform could be reactivated, but that puts dwelling equipment on the main. NS wouldn’t be too keen about that.)
Then, start work on the commuter platform with additional house tracks at RUS (already part of the plan). So, again not horrendous.
But, does Capital Yard have room for that additional equipment?
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Some of this would actually be equipment that the NCRR commuter rail already needs, just running out to Eastern NC instead of when it would otherwise be idling in a yard during off-peak periods. There would nevertheless probably have to be some additional equipment, but would it be stored at Capital Yard? Probably it would overnight at the ENC endpoints (Wilmington, New Bern/Morehead, Greenville/Rocky Mount).
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@orulz I can see that there would be room for stub-end house track at FAY that could allow for an overnight dwell, especially for a shorter consist like 3 cars and power unit. RMT has room for a house track and commuter platform which would require a pedestrian tunnel or overpass to access. (Or, would there be an alternative platform at the new NCDOT HQ?)
WMN is already making noise about resurrecting some of the old ACL rights-of-way. So, there’s a stub-end house track likely for that. I see GBO and NBR having all kinds of options which were left behind from abandonment which have not been encroached upon.
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@CanesFan There’s nothing confirmed, but probably new.
The latest new build coaches for Amtrak were the Horizon/Comet II series built by Bombardier at Barre VT for their Midwestern service as well as for NJ Transit. They came on-line back in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s.
Or, there is the generational replacement for the Amtrak’s Amfleet I equipment. An RFP for this project was floated earlier this year. No word yet on who will be building those.
Siemans in Sacramento is currently building an all-new single level passenger car and cab units for Caltrans and the Illinois DOT, called ‘CALIDOT.’ (This was being done by Nippon Sharyo, but they lost the contract To Siemans due to project delays and cost overruns.)
Either way, both models have been modified to be railroad control cars.
FYI: Siemans built the transets for Virgin Rail US in Florida.
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Hmmmm. I know of this county that’s starting a new commuter service. You’ve probably heard of it. And, they’re probably going to be in the market for some gently used, but well-maintained equipment.
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I was hoping that county would get Caltrans’ gently used F40’s. But F59’s are nice too.
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That is going to look waaay sexy in the GoTriangle livery.
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RUSbus hits the council on Tuesday.
http://go.boarddocs.com/nc/raleigh/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=BFFP3G62A673
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If this goes to the Growth and Natural Resources committee my head will explode.
@dtrcac Tweet on this as well: https://twitter.com/dtrcac/status/1167193502658322432?s=20
If it gets delayed at all, it’ll probably fail.
This is where the council needs to put up or shut up regarding affordable housing. This project includes an affordable housing component only made possible by upzoning in order to make the financials work. If this project receives pushback from council, it will be very clear that all their talk and concern about affordable housing stock is simply that - talk.
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