If RHA closes it means no more downtown amphitheater. There are no other realistic options. It is pointless to even float fantasies because even suggesting there are other options as if they are realistic risks it closing when the clock runs out while they are debated and “studied”.
Dix could happen at some point but you are talking 5-10 years based on their own master plan already in progress. Even if it was a really cool venue there would be minimal halo effect for DTR business (unless we get the Gondola!). Downtown South has some sort of venue planned but that thing is on life support as is, and also not downtown. Even then at least 5 years away if ever.
Moving it anywhere else is going to be NIMBY hell that I’ve yet to see really addressed in this thread (although it’s moving quickly so might have missed it). Nowhere in the city is signing up for an outdoor concert venue without hellacious push back from residents.
You’d honestly be better off detonating Meymandi and rebuilding something bigger and nicer at that point.
Moving it two blocks south instead of one block south is in my judgement a perfectly workable solution, unless there’s some fatal flaw I have not identified. Staff evidently has said “this lot is not big enough” but that doesn’t seem to hold water. It’s actually a bit larger than the spot they are proposing.
This also would not stoke the NIMBY furnace any more than it’s already been stoked. Might even get them to simmer down for a few reasons, not that I believe they can gain enough traction to shut this project down in either case.
My assumption is that lot was already ruled out for some reason. If they didn’t consider it a realistic option before I don’t see why it would be considered now, but don’t disagree that would be the only possible way to save it.
The reason I suspect the southern lot was ruled out is that the city-owned property is only about 1.25 acres, which is indeed too small. The current proposal occupies just under 2 acres, when you take into account the right-of-way gained from closing South Street.
However, when you add up the city-owned parcel plus the surplus right-of-way from NCDOT, you end up at right about 2 acres for the southern one. You get quite a bit more than 2 acres if you also include some facilities on the little triangle of land between South, McDowell, and the railroad. That’s across the railroad so it can’t be part of the actual performance venue, but it could serve some other purpose like bathrooms, concessions, entry gate/plaza, etc.
The only other explanation I can come up with is that the folks planning the RCC expansion just wanted RHA to be right next door, and never seriously considered anything else.
I am not a venue architect nor a civil engineer nor any such thing, so I could certainly be missing something here. But what?
I think you’re banging your head against the biggest issue which is that most people don’t care about losing South Street and like getting a new RHA faster while keeping it on the “right” side of the train tracks.
Ok, that’s the first time I’ve heard the “right side of the tracks” argument and I’ll acknowledge that could be a factor for some folks. I just haven’t heard it said here until now.
If there’s question about whether NCDOT would give up the surplus property, I think this might lay that to rest. 2 years ago, they unloaded four-plus acres of surplus right-of-way to a developer, right up to the curb, just across McDowell Street from here. Don’t see why 3/4 of an acre to the City of Raleigh would be a problem.
Who makes the final decision on Red Hat, is it city council? Is it in their hands now? And if it is, when will this be voted on? Lastly if it’s up to city council, how many need to vote “no” to shut this project down?
I believe the vote is in September and 5 votes are needed.
I do agree that the segmentation of the raised tracks here could be used as an argument for or against the proposed southern location. The raised berm could help with sound absorption but I also think access to this lot on event day would be more challenging than the currently proposed lot. They already shut down Lenoir for events so shutting down South similarly to enable safer passing is very reasonable and would help. Presumably if the south location were to be used, the lots between Lenoir/South and South/tracks could be used for “VIP” parking.
Yeah so it seems like you’ve answered your own question within your own comment.
Always best to avoid having to deal with Big Railroad as much as possible, so if they can fit everything in without having to cross tracks, that’s what they’ll do.
This is the likliest explanation and what also makes it so frustrating. We are basically settling for the laziest option. And now since they waited so long to make the lazy choice we are left with ‘save the amphitheater’ or else.
Also, all this fear stuff feeds right into the news media hyping up the fear. Its gonna pass (see laziness above) and it won’t really be close.
Could you guys imagine the sh!+ storm that would ensue if the city announced they were delaying the decision to look at alternative options? That in itself would create every opportunity LR and other NIMBY crowds want to claim the city is incompetent and would somehow tie it to being in the pockets of developers (not sure how, but they’d figure out how to spin it).
I mean, they went from “We’re closing Lenoir street” to “Closing South Street instead is now on the table” to “here is our official site plan that will close South Street” in the space of about a month and a half. This stuff is moving at relatively breakneck pace.
I am not saying the city should announce “We are going to delay this. We will hire a consultant to conduct an RFQ to decide who will draft an RFP to hire a consultant to conduct an exhaustive search and public engagement process, wherein we consider all possible sites within the city or county for a new location”
That is how you kill this shit stone dead.
I want them to say “Get your design consultant (Kimley Horn) to spend a week drawing up a block diagram for this one specific other nearby city-owned site to see if it will fit, and don’t sandbag it this time”.
To be fair, I would guestimate there are plenty of people on this board who don’t really give a shit about an underutilized street and are happy to vote as quickly as possible. Personally, all the squabbling and positioning has grown tiresome. Cities and their grids change. It happens. This has been discussed on some level for over a year. #let’sroll
